Talk:Simon Ekpa

A note on socking in this article

Of the 10 editors listed under "Top 10 by added text" at [1], 4 are blocked for socking, and 2 more just indeffed. As editing environment, it's not great. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 05:18, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

It is not and we still have something that looks like meant puppetry lurking around. Best, Reading Beans 06:07, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

@Reading Beans and

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång

This is not healthy for this page I must tell. I learn everyday Here. There could be a solution? «fjuːgəbʌs» (talk) 01:12, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

WP:FULL, but that has some drawbacks. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 04:28, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

And another "Top 10 by added text" editor blocked for socking. I'm guessing I'm next. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 05:11, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Always look on the bright side of life. SPI is apparently even more backlogged than a FISA docket. Long live, in the meantime. JFHJr (㊟) 06:18, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

New WP:EDITWAR

Myself and War Term has started an edit war on this bit in the WP:LEAD: [2]. Comments, editors? My view is that "founded in" is more informative than "since". Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:57, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

It predates 2023 according to sources. It suggest it existed prior to 2023. The first reportage was 2022.

Sahara Reporters carried it. 2022 and again 2022 (Chat With Term)talk 19:20, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Very good. So he announced it in 2022, and said "Biafra Republic Government In-Exile is registered, approved and legal. Agent of Nigeria, take note!" + announced himself PM of it the next year. I self-reverted. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:05, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

That's fine. What about this?

Feel free to revert (Chat With Term)talk 20:10, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

The infobox is for simple, undisputed info. Per discussions on this talkpage, calling Ekpa PM is not that, so we leave it out of the infobox. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:12, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes. That's right. It's too early. Till we have his successor in the future. (Chat With Term)talk 20:14, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Bola Tinubu or the UN calling him PM of Biafra will probably be quite satisfactory. As of now, sources are kinda mixed. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:17, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. (Chat With Term)talk 20:25, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

I looked at those sources again, since I intended to use them. I see now that they say BGIE, not BRGIE, so "It suggest it existed prior to 2023" doesn't really work for WP-purposes. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Typo? Wår (talk) 17:33, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

My guess: he was still shaping things in his mind. But possibly, the BGIE is still out there somewhere (splitters!) Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:50, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Maybe, the linked text directs to another unrelated stuff. Mistake or intentional? Wår (talk) 19:05, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Intentional. It was an attempt at humor based on separatist orgs fighting between themselves. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:13, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I think he broke away from them. See the BGIE website. They are now defunct anyways. Wår (talk) 19:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

They also had their PM according to the information obtained there. Was it Ekpa? Wår (talk) 19:19, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I don't know, that page says © 2018. Perhaps that's why he added the R, it was pointed out to him that BGIE was taken. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

IMO, he entered into alliance with them in 2022 and in 2023, he broke out to BRGIE. The BGIE is not covered in sources. I find it difficult to see. Wår (talk) 19:32, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

There is (or was) also a Biafra Shadow Government (BSG). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:47, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

These are not notable except the BRGIE. I should have seen BSG on sources but I still struggles. I don't know they existed anyways. Nevertheless, they may also be related to the BRGIE just like the BGIE. Too many factions. Wår (talk) 19:53, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

They exist/existed:[3] Some media seems to be confused on BGIE/BRGIE too:[4]. Maybe it's on purpose (Ekpa's). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:59, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

My God! Now this is more complicated than ever. From my own view, he started with the name, BGIE but at the long run in 2023,it was transformed into the BRGIE. The BSG isn't connected but BGIE? Well, I think they are related. There were no reports he later broke out of the BGIE, so we assume that the BGIE and BRGIE are same and Ekpa joined them in 2022 and became it's leader in 2023. Wår (talk) 20:08, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Per sources, the best I can make out is that Ekpa made part of IPOB into Autopilot, then named that BGIE, possible then noticed there already was one, then made that BRGIE. But that's a guess, nothing that will go into the article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Biafra Government in Exile mention from 2016: [5] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:23, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

That's it. My assertions may be right. The BGIE existed since 2016. It got defunct in 2018 according to their website (assumptions). Ekpa tried to revived them in 2022 by entering into the reported alliance. Probably, he failed and in 2023, he transformed them to BRGIE and ended the IPOB stuff he was into. Wår (talk) 20:29, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

A reliable source stating such a continuity is required to apply to this article. It is original research and synthesis unless continuity is reliably and actually stated. It's quite conceivable one group was inactive when another took the same name. I'll note no mention of Ekpa himself in these pre-2023 digs. And if someone else founded the Ekpa org, it doesn't belong as WP:WEIGHTily in detail in this BLP. JFHJr (㊟) 02:25, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps Yle will do it for us at some point. Or BBC, easier to read. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:07, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

BLA emblem

Is there any usable source that can confirm this is the BLA emblem? I think the actual Biafra military used that or something like that, and of course it's possible Ekpa thought it looked nice. If no decent source has noticed this is the BLA emblem, there is no reason WP should. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:43, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Yep [6], seems like a Military ranks of Biafra rip-off/whatever. So, decent source needed. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:07, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Ekpa leads Armed revolt

"Ekpa is known for leading an armed revolt against the Nigerian state" was added on the lede article.

Per sources, from Yle, Helsinki times and Premium times.

IMO, I thought that is worth mentioning on the Lead per body of Simon_Ekpa#Activism and separatism. I mean it's Wikipedia:Notability can't be ignored per Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: @JFHJr:. Objections? Wår (talk) 06:21, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes: your sources:

• "The Biafra agitator, who is based in Finland, has been accused of fuelling insecurity in south-east Nigeria."[7]
• "Ekpa's exact role in the separatist group was unclear, but he has called on millions of people in southeastern Nigeria to participate in anti-government protests during the past 18 months." "Armed revolt" is there, but it's WP:HEADLINES and per text "Nigeria says", the paper makes that clear. Not fit for Wiki-voice and WP:SUSPECT needs to be considered. [8]

You are greatly exaggerating your sources, I tweaked, may still not be ok per WP:LEAD. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:06, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Also, you should look into how to use WP:NAMEDREF. Once in place, they are easy to re-use with both source editor and visual editor, and it reduces clutter in the References section. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:12, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

The headline of the Premium Times says "Nigerian military chief accuses Finnish govt, EU of shielding Simon Ekpa" and not that he accuses him of leading an armed revolt. Ekpa is not being accused per your tweak. Ekpa agrees he is leading the armed revolt per Kuvalehti report when he said "After the creation of the defensive forces, government forces no longer encroach on our area, because we have manpower all over, that protect"

He has in different sources said that. Though, the fact that he's being accused by Nigeria remains. See Daily post Wår (talk) 09:12, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:SUSPECT, I consider the removal of the entire sentence if that's the case.

I found an article that says "The Nigerian government accuses Simon Ekpa of using social media to instigate violence in the South-east." here. Wår (talk) 09:31, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

What Ekpa says is what Ekpa says, nothing more for WP-purposes. WP:HEADLINES are not good sources. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:26, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:SUSPECT. I have removed the entire sentence. Let's wait till he's convicted Wår (talk) 19:28, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

That's fine, but WP:SUSPECT doesn't forbid mentioning accusations, just that the sources needs to be good and correctly used, and that it's about a "public figure" (like Ekpa). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:35, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

On mentioning the Abia-killings

@JFHJr I get the impression that from the Nigerian POV [9][10][11], there's no real difference between Ekpa and (the rest of) IPOB. Still, clearer sources would be better. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:21, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

They broke away but it seems the Nigerian media continues to confuse them with the BRGIE. Same with BLA and ESN. This is from my own observations. Wår (talk) 01:28, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

The US Justice Department thing

@JFHJr I've looked at [12][13] but I don't understand. Did Ekpa ask to be registered in [something] as "an entity for Biafra independence"? And [something] said "fine, you are now registered as that."? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:29, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Lobbyists in the United States are required by the Foreign Agents Registration Act to disclose a client who is a foreign country, organization, or person. That PDF e-filing indicates (1) that a lobbying firm submitted an amendment to its registration to say that it is an agent of "Biafra Republic Government In-Exile", located in Nigeria, and (2) that the filing was received by the United States Department of Justice National Security Division. Here are the exhibits mentioned there: [14]. SilverLocust 💬 18:26, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Indeed. Saying "this also affirms that BRGIE is now an officially registered entity with the United States Department of Justice" is quite the spin. If I listed Abkhazia, Western Sahara, or Somaliland as my employer on my tax return, would that entitle me to announce that "[insert unrecognized country here] is now an officially registered entity with the United States Internal Revenue Service"? Extraordinary Writ (talk) 21:26, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

First comes the generic INC or LLC filing. Second comes the foreign agent registration. No taxes required (different administrative Dept). But you did forget the most important part, "Government in Exile" at the end. To make it CLEARLY real. I suggest "People's Republic of Lahti Government in Exile" in case you decide to experiment IRL. Cheers. JFHJr (㊟) 23:52, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

That's interesting since Biafra Republic Government In-Exile seems to insist it's located in the US. Thank you both for your comments (and please keep watching!). My understanding of SilverLocust's doc is that Ekpa/BRGIE now are clients of moranstrategies.com. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:44, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

The Justice Department does not recognize governments or organizations on a diplomatic level. That's for the Department of State of the executive (administrative Department level) branch. Claims of recognition through compulsory registration as a foreign agent are outlandish. We are not like Russia, but foreign agent status carries heightened stigma, scrutiny, and reporting obligations for funding, lobbying and other activities. It is not a positive or affirmative "recognition" by our government per se. We require foreign agents to register, and we might fine, liquidate, and/or jail them if they fail to do so. We've done that recently, though the worst seem to get presidential pardons. JFHJr (㊟) 23:45, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

And clients of Moran, yes most definitely. JFHJr (㊟) 00:34, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång and @JFHJr

I found this to comfirm the moranstrategies.com stuff from a recent source. Things are really unfolding in the media and reality there in the US but I think we're being taken unawares here. Let's continue digging more deeper into research.

I see our new contributors @SilverLocust and @Extraordinary Writ. Cheers and please add this to your watch list and stay around for some time. This scope may burst in the future as the BRGIE says they intend to issue a declaration for the restoration of independence of Biafra in December 2024 per Suomen.

Welcome. I am most focused in ongoing protests in Kenya. Wår (talk) 03:47, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

The Africa Report source looks interesting but I can't read it. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:09, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Why can't you read it? You mean you can't access the link or it's a long read for you? Let @JFHJr try then. Wår (talk) 06:19, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

From where I'm sitting, WP:PAYWALL. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:25, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

The unreliable sources were:

1. THE AUTHORITY NEWS (authorityngr.com ),
2. Daily Post Nigeria (dailypost.ng), and
3. Vanguard News (vanguardngr.com)

The same weird POV falsehood was repeated blatantly the same way, not in any seriously artful, professional, or even deceptive way. They're just repeating claims by Ekpa or his supporters. That should inform our decisions about inclusion of future claims from these sources. It should also provoke reviews of all their other uses in citations here. JFHJr (㊟) 00:25, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

It's a bit of a mix. My basic approach is that Daily Post (Nigeria) and Vanguard (Nigeria) are standard newspapers of their region. There is a lot of "Ekpa says" reporting (I'm guessing Ekpa gets clicks in Nigeria, for various reasons), like in this case, but as long as editors don't make that WP-voice, it's not necessarily problematic, though WP:PROPORTION, WP:ABOUTSELF and WP:RECENTISM needs to be considered. That something is in the media today doesn't mean it has to be in this article today. They also do stuff like [15], which looks like decent journalism to me. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:24, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Biafra Referendum

For the interested, there is a new related article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:18, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Biafra Referendum. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:11, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Template:POV

@Chipmunkdavis, hi. Per the spirit of Template:POV, it would be helpful if you state your concerns here on the talkpage, the more specific the better. And, you know, edit. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:21, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi Gråbergs Gråa Sång, the article has a few related problems. This starts from the lead, where the "Biafra Republic Government in Exile" is presented as a separate institution the subject became the leader of rather than something the subject invented. Saying it has a "military wing" is a real stretch, let alone two. The presentation of Biafra is unusual, we don't include statements like "(Formerly part of Biafra)" in most infoboxes. The subject is not known for "Biafra restoration", Biafra has not been 'restored'. Opponent "The Nigerian state" is also odd. In the body, the main issue is with the "Activism and separatism". It is an overload of excessive detail. As a start, anywhere using quotes should be seriously looked at. I unfortunately do not have the time at the moment to really delve into the sources, but the issues are apparently in the article text. Aside from POV, it's also weird that an AI-generated image is being presented as "Ekpa in 2023". CMD (talk) 13:23, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis Interesting, didn't notice there are 2 military wings there now, that wasn't the case before. The photo has a wearisome history on WP/Commons (some of it:[16][17], some people have told me I AGF too much), fwiw this one is Commons-approved, I have no opinion on if it's AI. We'll see what happens. The lead used to say "an organization he founded"[18].

I know there are a lot of quotes (I've inserted several), and I'm not saying it's not excessive. But the thing is that a lot of the reporting is X said/Y said. Some paid coverage have appeared. And of course [19]. Ping @Yann and @JFHJr if you feel like getting involved. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:20, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

I can't trace which blocked account uploaded which deleted picture, but the current picture is an AI image. On the quotes, some might be useful, but there's a lot even outside of the quotes such as "In May 2024, Ekpa urged the Nigerian government to engage the Finnish government to mediate in the conflict between BLA and the Nigerian army" which really feel like pro-forma press release stuff. I am not familiar enough with the various sources used to work through what has weight and what is recycled press release. CMD (talk) 14:31, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, stuff like that and "Ekpa sent a letter" can probably be trimmed. That he says something doesn't mean it should be in the article, "Ekpa on Ekpa" is not the goal. That's what he has Twitter for. And, apparently, some Nigerian newspapers, my guess is that he gets the clicks. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:36, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Well, it does provide itself a context in the frame of: Finland is relevant to the article's subject and both Ekpa and Nigeria have tried to coax Finland into joining their gripe. Finland doesn't seem interested though. That sad state for both sides takes one paragraph in this very long biography. It's okay with me re weight. If it's not with you, remove it and I'll probably be okay with that too. I don't have a strong opinion about this, but it could probably stand. JFHJr (㊟) 03:25, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

It would have greater weight if Finland made a public reply, but it's not glaringly awful content. With the African Court on Human and Peoples' Rights thing the court said, "yes, we've seen that message", which some people found very exiting, but it's not that weighty either IMO, though I'm ok with it being in the article. If they make some sort of ruling on it, that will be more interesting. And then there was the "The US Justice Department supports me!" thing. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:11, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

From the source it doesn't seem the Finland government was contacted at this point, BRGIE sent the message to the Nigerian government. The paragraph structure implies that the later Nigerian government responses were due to this message, but the sources link it instead to the general pattern of social media posts and/or sponsoring criminal activity (and previous similar responses are also included in the article). The paragraph works without the statement, and would not risk implying that connection.

Other quotes which could probably be summarised are "we also wish to officially announce an alliance and activation of Biafra Government In Exile (BGIE) with the IPOB-Autopilot" (him announcing his two organisations are linked), "Biafra Republic Government In-Exile is registered, approved and legal. Agent of Nigeria, take note!" (especially that second sentence), "double agents sponsored by the Nigerian government to ridicule the IPOB movement" (speculative BLP about Ekpa that doesn't seem to add, and this one also leaves unaddressed who the remaining IPOB is), "Be it as it may, Ekpa is now at least the prime minister by some" (essentially stating he has some supporters), "When [Ekpa] gives instructions, destruction follows. They cause killing, maiming, fires, whatever...In the South-east, Simon Ekpa has become a menace to this country. The country must act on it diplomatically. [Ekpa] is having a freeway because [Finland] are encouraging him to do what he is doing. His utterances and actions are affecting what is happening in Nigeria" (easily summarised as accusations he is linked to some violent actions), "He should stop inciting hatred and provoking. Ekpa does not represent the Igbo people of Finland" (already covered in an earlier paragraph too), and "the BRGIE referendum further consolidated the self-determination pursuit of the people of Biafra amid decades of alleged marginalization by the Nigerian government" (a reasonably pro forma statement of support given the aim of the group).

There are a few other quotes, but they are both shorter and seem like those where the exact words are important. Aside from these, is there a need to attribute Yle inline so many times? CMD (talk) 09:00, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

@CMD, I think you're right. The article needs condensing. Inline Yle sentences should be removed of unnecessary attribution to put the article's subject in focus as the subject and topic as much as possible. Instances of multiple single-use refs to support a single claim can even be combined with one ref markup containing multiple cite news templates. The result would be a smoother ref section below. Wish I had the time now myself. JFHJr (㊟) 03:19, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

On my image point however, it's been pointed out to me that the image is used by the individual as their twitter image. So, assuming that twitter account is actually them, it doesn't seem a BLP risk for use here. CMD (talk) 16:42, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

As I understand it, the Ekpa/IPOB position is basically "I took them over/Nuh-huh". I do consider the quotes of minister/general to have extra weight. People have been adding more cites for a long time, and it's possible there is some overlap by now, especially when some editors don't re-use cites. On the whole, my view is that Yle is a quality source here, and quite useful in the WP-context. He's Finnish citizen after all. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:55, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Noting that Commons:Deletion requests/File:Simon Ekpa portrait, 2023.jpg has been closed. I'm not sure I think the article-banner on this is necessary/helpful. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:12, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

More importantly, the file itself has been tagged. That said, I haven't seen Template:Upscaled images before. Is it meant to stay until there is a non-AI image? The tag says "The manual of style for images recommends that such images be replaced with their original historical versions", but we can't get the original here as it is the manipulated image itself which is VRTed. CMD (talk) 07:20, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm removing it, tagging the file seems more reasonable. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:30, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

MOS:IMAGES does also say that If an AI-upscaled image is used in an article, this fact should be noted in its caption, although that's perhaps more important for historical posters and newsprint than what's essentially an airbrushed publicity shot here. Belbury (talk) 08:15, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Didn't know that. The Commons-discussion seemed split on if this was AI or not, but add something if you think it fits. I sort of expect pics like these to be manipulated in some way today. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:31, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis This is annoying, but in 2022 he talked about "Biafra Government In Exile (BGIE)" (no "republic"). It's possible he changed his mind/postponed a bit because there already was a BGIE [20] (and I hope you've seen Life of Brian). My reading is that the 2023 "Biafra Republic Government In-Exile is registered, approved and legal. Agent of Nigeria, take note!" was the start of his own org. Related discussion at Talk:Simon_Ekpa#New_WP:EDITWAR.

Oh, I just noted that BGIE:s PM was Udeh Christian-Iwuagwu.[21] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:14, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I've tweaked to note both names. I added 2022 for context, but if you think mentioning only 2023 would be clearer I have no objections. CMD (talk) 09:30, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I can live with it.

The "He is the leader ("Prime Minister")" wording was inserted by @JFHJr here [22] following this discussion: Talk:Simon_Ekpa/Archive_2#Editwar_on_WP:LEAD_"self-declared"_again and it has held until now.

What I like about that wording is that we don't have to pick a PM-caveat for the WP:LEAD. ("Prime Minister") says "that's what his org calls him" (to me anyway), and there has been some major disagreement on that. Partly with editors who are blocked now, but still. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:52, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I did not understand that implication when I read it. I reinserted with the word "titled", how does that fit the previous consensus? CMD (talk) 10:18, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Works for me. But don't try to put it in the infobox. Or short description. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:28, 6 September 2024 (UTC)