Talk:Voiced bilabial trill

Bilabial trill in English?!?

I'm sure that the given example is pure nonsense; brrr is [b] followed by a uvular trill. But then I've never heard a native speaker say it... comments please?

David Marjanović | david.marjanovic_at_gmx.at | 2005/9/28 | 21:56 CET-summertime

The spelling "brrr" is a poor representation...I guess it would make more sense if it were spelled "bbb", since there is no uvular trill in the sound. Ardric47 04:43, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't see what a uvular trill has to do with anything. It doesn't occur in English. Brrr is English orthography for the sound made when shivering. Bbb doesn't mean anything. Of course, English brrr is a rather poor approximation of a bilabial trill - the lips are too lax, the vibration frequency too low, and it often involves a Richard Nixon-like shaking of the jowls - but it gives the native speaker an idea of what's involved. kwami 07:04, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I see... a culture shock! You see, when I complain about cold, I really say [b̥ʀ̩ː]. Over here [ʙ] is entirely restricted to baby-talk.

:-]

David Marjanović | david.marjanovic_at_gmx.at | 14:26 CET-summertime | 2005/9/28

If David Marjanovic is Austrian (as his e-mail address implies), then I would have to counter that in Germany [ʙ] is indeed commonly used: to express cold, to imitate snuffling of horses, and other things. I don't know about Austria, but it would be strange if it weren't used there at all (maybe not as much). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.206.132.215 (talk) 15:10, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm a native speaker of English (Glaswegian), and I use this sound! In words that begin with 'Br', such as 'Bravo', 'Bright'. James McParland, tcm1707 17:24. 03/06/07

I'm no expert, but i think the sound being referred too must be close to the first half of 'brrm' as in the 'brrm-brrm' that children make to imitate the sound of a car, rather then 'brrr'The Yowser (talk) 13:14, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Non-linguistic uses again (2014)

Among English speakers in my area, it has several non-linguistic uses (to express cold, to imitate a motorboat, etc.). Across the world, I would guess that it's used more often extralinguistically than as a real phonological speech sound, so it would be good to mention such uses... AnonMoos (talk) 01:22, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

merging from Dental bilabially trilled affricate

I was under the impression that an affricate would have to have a homorganic release (Otherwise /ks/ could be considered an affricate and it's not); also, I don't think we need to have a separate page for every possible or occurring affricate. The alveolar and postalveolar ones are exceptions because they're so common. If the dbta is notable in its rarity, it can certainly be mentioned with examples in the bilabial trill article. Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 17:48, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I think it's considered an affricate because there is no bilabial trill in the language, so it can't be a sequence like ks. I'm neutral as to the merger. kwami 06:12, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Voiceless/Voiced distinction?

This might be a stupid question, but aren't there both voiceless and voiced versions of the bilabial trill, which correspond to trilling p/b respectively? This distinction is mentioned in the Mangbettu article in the language section. Marbles1136 (talk) 01:13, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

User:Marbles1136 - Yes, and there could be three articles: Bilabial trill, Voiced bilabial trill and Voiceless bilabial trill. 80.134.90.212 (talk) 19:14, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

You mean two, not three. On Wikipedia, articles about voiced trills don't have the word "voiced" in their titles. Peter238 (talk) 19:16, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Well, they should. Or if this one is an “exception to the rule,” it should be made consistent. But I don’t consider that a sensible rule. 伟思礼 (talk) 17:03, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Occurrences

Seems odd to have a table listing occurrences followed by prose for the ones not in the table. But I don’t have enough information to fix it. 伟思礼 (talk) 17:06, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Sardinian?

See Sardinian language#Dialects. Is Sardinian bb (historically from [kʷ]) really ever pronounced as a trill consonant? I've never heard of that, but considering that dd is also pronounced quite differently from what you would expect from the spelling (certainly not a retroflex), and that this article implies that something like [(m)bʷ] is a historical source for [ʙ], I hesitate to call bullshit on it – I might have missed the memo. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 21:34, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

It's almost certainly not a trill, or Sardinian would be the prototypical example of a bilabial trill. Maybe a translation error, or the editor simply doesn't know what a "trill" is. — kwami (talk) 03:50, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Komi-Permyak Trill

I don't believe Komi-Permyak has a bilabial trill in said word. I find no evidence for it in the far more heavily sourced Komi-Permyak page; there's no mention of it as a allophone of p, b, or v, and the current example has no source. If there is a source, I would like to see it, but I, again, find it extremely unlikely that it would appear without any major mention elsewhere. (I made the previous edit for the IP address,96.225.89.127)Qwed117 (talk) 00:06, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

It is sourced, in the language column. The source dates to work from 1901 though, so it may be well the case that modern Komi no longer has this word (though I'd expect that at least the widespread "paralinguistic" particle /ʙuː/ 'stop (to a horse)' is still found). --Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 14:39, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

gratuitous divergence?

There really ought to be some effort to bring together articles that sure look (to a layman at least) to be overlapping, if only for some sort of compare/contrast. Specifically, the poorly titled Blowing a raspberry, which at minimum has the good grace to refer back to bilabial trill, and really ought to link back more clearly to flatulence humor.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 16:04, 23 November 2017 (UTC)