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Template:Did you know nominations/Statue of Mary Seacole

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 22:53, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

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Statue of Mary Seacole

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Mary Seacole statue, St Thomas' Hospital
Mary Seacole statue, St Thomas' Hospital

Created by KJP1 (talk). Nominated by Evrik (talk) at 16:09, 17 June 2020 (UTC).

  • Interesting honour, on good sources, no copyvio obvious. The image is licensed and an excellent illustration, thanks to OwenBlacker. I am not yet happy with the hooks, because I think in this case "2016" and "nurse" might add attraction. Evrik, thank you for the nomination, - it's usually the nominator who supplies a qpq. In the article, I think most of the lead could become a paragraph "Background" of the subject, and there should be a bit more summary of the artwork. Nice infobox ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:24, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
  • "The first statue in Britain to show a named black woman" is questionable; Nicola Adams in Downhills Park has been there since at least 2013. ‑ Iridescent 16:11, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
  • It's a good article, we perhaps need a better hook. --evrik (talk) 16:28, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
Iridescent - That’s interesting. Certainly it’s how the Seacole’s been described, as you’ll see from the many sources. Let me see if I can think of a more “accurate” hook. KJP1 (talk) 18:00, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
In fact, this one isn't even the first public statue in London of Mary Seacole. It's possibly a semantic argument over what constitutes a statue, as the Nicola Adams and the 2013 Seacole are in an unusual "flattened wire-frame" design rather than the conventional solid lump of marble or bronze (although more likely, someone at St Thomas's sent out a "first ever" press release in good faith because they weren't aware of the others, and the news media reprinted it without bothering to verify it.) ‑ Iridescent 19:08, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
I think we don't even need the "first" thing to make this interesting. Just where this is of whom created when should be good enough, better pictured than not. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:49, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
  • QPQ donated. --evrik (talk) 21:53, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Just to say - I’m afraid I have little idea about how DYK works - and no idea what a QPQ is - so very happy to go with the better-informed views and opinions of others. If you want me to make any changes to the text, just let me know. KJP1 (talk) 07:34, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
    evrik, thank you for the donation, - could you please also supply a wording without the "first"? ... I shouldn't, or can't review. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:26, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
  • ALT2: ... that the statue of Mary Seacole in London, (pictured) is meant to recognize the work of black and minority ethnic healthcare staff, and the diverse community they serve?" [1]
  • @Gerda Arendt: --evrik (talk) 17:50, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
    better, thank you. I don't like "meant to", speaking about intentions, and the phrase from work to staff is hard to digest ;) - how about factually saying that it portrays a nurse from Jamaica working in England, - perhaps we don't even have to say "black" then, - Jamaica known for ethnic mix. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:44, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
  • ALT2a: ... that the statue of Mary Seacole in London, (pictured) recognizes the work of black and minority ethnic healthcare staff, and the diverse community they serve?" --evrik (talk) 18:57, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
    When I said "fact" I didn't mean to make something a fact which was spoken by a single woman. Fact is that is portrays a black named nurse who has an article, and was singled out by asking people. Repeating: I find these hard facts more attractive than this inauguration speech general style. "woman" got all lost from the original hook to here. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:09, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Mary Seacole statue
Mary Seacole statue
This article is about the statue, there are many facts about the woman not in this article. --evrik (talk) 19:24, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
So?? This hook will - possibly without picture - come between a mountain and a politician, imagine. Don't you think we should say at least say that she was a black nurse? It's rather often that it takes time to raise funds for an arts project, - nothing specific to this one. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:32, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
  • Would this be a better image? Ham II (talk) 19:36, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
    I think yes. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:53, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
    I think no. :-) --evrik (talk) 20:04, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Mary Seacole statue
Mary Seacole statue
  • ALT4:... that the statue of Mary Seacole (pictured) in London recognizes a woman named the greatest "black Briton"? "Nurse named greatest Black Briton". BBC News. 2004-02-10. 20:04, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
    I moved pictured (it's not London pictured), and removed an extra comma. Both images are fine, nominator prefers the first. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:45, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
What about this image? Ham II (talk) 20:56, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
I see too little of her in that one. I like the "marching in defiance" aspect visible in the second. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:59, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
To be precise, I see the same in the third but only when larger, it's unclear in small size. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:01, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
Mary Seacole statue
Mary Seacole statue
In that case, is this crop of the third image an improvement? Ham II (talk) 21:25, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
  • @Ham II: all these images are very dark. The first has a drop more light, but is hardly eye-catching at thumbnail size. This will likely be promoted without an image. Yoninah (talk) 21:02, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
  • Hi, I came by to promote this, and expanded the lead to identify the subject's notability. I moved information about her into a "Subject" section, but this section needs citations because it is now in the body of the article. Would you mind adding them? Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 21:18, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
    What I don't understand is that I thought it's just sparing readers the link to her article, where it is sourced, no? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
  • done --evrik (talk) 21:53, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
  • Thank you, evrik. I added a cite and identified one more place where a cite is needed. I agree with you, Gerda, that there is too much information about her in this article, but I wasn't about to cut it. Yoninah (talk) 22:18, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
  • fixed. --evrik (talk) 22:42, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
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