User talk:Zythe/Archive 4

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Uh... why'd you blank your page? Here, look at the funny vandalism I just took out from Spike's romantic interest section:

• Xander Harris - In the episode "Hush," Giles informs Xander that he has to keep Spike with him for a few days because an old girlfriend of his will be coming over from England. That night, before going to bed, Xander ties Spike down to a chair in his bedroom, even though Spike claims he wouldn't want to bite him even if he could. After some back-and-forth banter, Spike starts talking continually in an exaggerated imitation of Anya to annoy Xander. In an attempt to shut Spike up, Xander locks lips with the vampire. The two then proceed to have sex.

Paul730 04:54, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Giles' geography

Um, not meaning to poke my nose in, but thought I'd leave my two bits re: the Giles location issue in the comics. Whilst it's not made explicit, I am inclined to agree he's in England. However, the architecture in the background of the massive ninja battle panel looks like an amalgam of Parisian houses and Russian domes, imo. What that says about his location I don't know.

AdZ 14:02, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

If he's confirmed to appear, maybe it will. Time will tell, I spose. Kinda makes you wonder how the new Watcher-Slayer dynamic is going to work. I mean, since the original one is basically gone...

AdZ 14:11, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Anything to work on?

Hi, I just got done working on Buffyverse appearances with User:Paul730, they now have canon, and non-canon appearances, well anyway I was wondering if there was anything else you think I could work on, seeing as it's summer vacation for me, and I have nothing to do. ---Smartjoe299 17:15, 15 June 2007

Write a fanfic, I'd like to read one :P ~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 16:17, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Chronology dispute, again.

Talk:Chronology of the Doctor Who universe#2007 or 2008 - 172's back again. I'd like your opinion, please. Will ^(talk) 17:47, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

As a matter of interest, what version do you reckon is better? Will ^(talk) 18:10, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

True - the closest thing we have to a source is the official tie-in blog (it's a shame it's myspace, though). We do tend to source tie-ins a lot to date definitively, but there's the whole "it's a myspace" vs. "it's official" thing we have to consider. Will ^(talk) 18:15, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I take a Star Wars canon approach to it. Will ^(talk) 18:23, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Hello, Zythe

I approached User:Paul730 with this same exact message a day ago that I'm about to relay to you starting after this next line, since he mentioned you two having discussed this as well -- I have a question about an aspect of both Angel's article, as well as Spike's article: Don't you feel that Angel (whether called Angel or Angelus) should be in the section titled Other, as in concerns to Spike's romantic and or love interests? I mean, the both of them having had a one-night stand together while most likely being drunk and or in a sexual situation with either Darla or Drusilla doesn't strike me as something that should be in his romantic interests section, with heavy-hitters like Buffy.

If Spike and Angel had a torrid love affair, then sure I can see the Angel character needing to be mentioned in that section of Spike's article, but the two most likely having had a one-night stand, when they are more so rivals than anything romantic, and still being in each other's romantic interests section seems off. It doesn't seem to fit for either needing to be in Angel's romantic interests section or Spike's romantic interests section. I suppose that one can argue that a one-night stand is being romantically interested in someone, but still -- Angel and Spike as lovers isn't so significant in that it hasn't really been elaborated on within either the show Buffy the Vampire Slayer or the show Angel.

I noticed that Angel was in the section titled Other of Spike's article several days ago, but now he's back in the romantic section. Anyway, let me know your main thoughts on that. Flyer22 08:57, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Relationships

Just wanted to ask your opinion on something. In the Buffyverse pages, what constitutes a notable relationship (ie, one that deserves mention on the page)? Spike has romantic/sexual and lots of miscellaneous relationships, Willow has romantic and enemies, and other characters only have romantic. Since every character on the show has a relationship of some sort with the other characters, what relationships actually warrant being included on their page? I'm concerned that the articles are going to become very cluttered if we start inluding "other relationships" subsections. For example, Anya has just been added to Willow's 'ships. Does that mean we have to include Buffy, Xander, Giles, and Dawn in that section as well? They have relationships too, after all. Paul730 17:07, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Countdown Edits

I have removed yet again the material from the article. You will note that it was originally removed to Discussion so as to be preserved until someone could cite the statements that appear to be little more than OR musings by contributors at this point. When someone notable speaks out on the material, we can quote them. Until then - un accordance with WP policies, we cannot allow the material to remain live inthe article until then. I didn't make the rules, but I am enforcing them in the article. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 20:07, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Jack Harkness

I have started the discussion you suggested here . LizzieHarrison 09:39, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:Torchwood SUV.jpg)

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Richard Hurndall

Zythe... please stop removing Hurndall from the list of Dr. Who actors... it is an encyclopedic fact that he played the first doctor. This is an encyclopedia. If people care that Gordon Tipple played The Master (Doctor Who) then I guarantee you they also care that Hurndall played the Doctor. I have yet to see you remove Tipple from the Master list so if you're not going to be consistent then please don't interefere at all.--Dr who1975 14:53, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

P.S. this is all on the discussion page for The Doctor (Doctor Who) if you;d care to read what;s happened since it started.--Dr who1975 15:07, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I guess I'm OK with the "and others" link. It would've been nice if you contributed to the discussion regarding this. I hate feeling ignored.--Dr who1975 22:09, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Dates of appearances for Buffyverse

Zythe...I was wondering your opinioun on Buffyverse dates, as of now if they are in, for example: "Buffy" then before it lists there episodes it shows this

Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1997 - 2003)

Showing the date of the whole show. (1997 - 2003) should I change that to just the years they appear in or keep it like that. ---Smartjoe299

Captain Jack

I'd like to see more real-life info on this page. Do you know what the public's reaction was to an openly bi companion? Was there any controversy in the media about having a bisexual guy in Doctor Who? Do you know what was the inspiration for Jack's character? If there is enough information, it would be nice to have a "cultural impact" section. And I'd like to include a mention of his Dead Ringers parody somewhere, but I'm not sure where. After all, Iceman's appearance in Family Guy is mentioned on his page. What do you think? Paul730 22:07, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Great research! I'm rubbish at finding good sources. Those can be fleshed out into a great section! I love how everyone seems to like Jack instead of whinging about his sexuality. :) Paul730 22:48, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Hey good news!

I Finally fixed the Mayors appearances, now it looks so much better ---User:Smartjoe299

Pretext

1. something that is put forward to conceal a true purpose or object; an ostensible reason; 2. the misleading appearance or behavior assumed with this intention:

Let's use it in a sentence

The Master and Lucy's marriage was a pretext used so that she could accompany him as prime minister.

So you see... pretext is a valid word to use... however... pretense is a better word so I will leave it.--Dr who1975 16:54, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Cap Jack

Like, well done!  :) Sorry I wasn't more help, but this section looks really good and is better referenced than anything else I've seen on Wikipedia. Nice research! Minor details; does the stuff about Agatha Harkness being the basis for Jack's name really belong in the appearances section? Also, I know this is the ten gazillionth time I've mentioned it, but his Dead Ringers spoof should be mentioned somewhere, so I added it. Other than it, it seems ready to be submitted. Paul730 20:48, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Chronology of the Doctor Who universe

Want to help push it to FL? I think it might pass, if the refs and dating for 2000s were just checked over - the rest is fine. Will ^(talk) 00:01, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Does it qualify as a list, by the way? At any rate, I won't nominate it until Sunday - gives 18 hours to update for Last of the Time Lords and get it all polished up so it looks good. To be honest, the only dates I'm concerned about are the Family of Blood and Invasion of the Bane citations - the former can take place on either date (most likely Sun 9 Nov), and the latter is semi-OR, based only on the clock and the 18 months. I'm also considering nominating the serials list to FL and Jack Harkness to GA (again, after Saturday, for obvious reasons). Will ^(talk) 22:30, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

The JH looks well at the moment - and I thought that the pansexual->bisexual change was the IP changing, not you. (I have the JH page on watch.) Will ^(talk) 22:48, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

BTW, I've nommed the list - I think it qualifies, what about you? (luckily, the end of LOTL gave us information for the Christmas Special's date too!) Will ^(talk) 20:40, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Have this!

I have decided that your edits to Captain Jack's page deserve this:

		The LGBT Barnstar
		For contributing excellent work and research to the improvement of the Captain Jack Harkness article, in particular the Critical reception section. Well done! Paul730 07:45, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I thought about giving you the Doctor Who barnstar, but I decided this was more appropiate! :) Try to find someone who can cite some of the unsourced comments in the plot section, and condense down the novel which will inevitably appear after Saturday's ep, and this article will be ready to be submitted! Paul730 07:45, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

DC vs Marvel

Have never read a DC comic in my life and don't plan to. Marvel fan through and through! The Marvel characters just always seemed more real to me; geeky teenager, persecuted outcasts, alcoholic, blind guy, hideous monsters... etc. The DC characters, not I'm aware of many more than the mainstream ones, just seems like such a bunch of Mary Sues. I do enjoy the Batman films though. I'll say this for DC but, at least they have some proper gay characters with Batwoman, Apollo, and Midnighter. I'm somewhat disapointed that, for a company who's main source of income is a book with a gay metaphor, the best Marvel can come up with is the one-dimensional Northstar. Personally, I think that Iceman should come out of the closet since there's plenty of hints and they're not doing much else with the character. Things are looking better now; hopefully Wiccan, Hulkling, Karolina, and Anole will stick around long enough to be accepted into mainstream. Paul730 04:52, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Ooh, stuck a fanboy nerve by dissing DC! ;) You misunderstand me, I don't dislike DC characters for being too powerful, I dislike (or more accurately, am less interested in) them because their personalities are too perfect. All this "truth, justice, and the American way" crap. Maybe I'm wrong (like I said, I don't know much about DC), but when was the last time Superman failed to save his girlfriend's life, when was the last time Wonder Woman turned evil and ate a star, and when was the last time the Teen Titans were systematically massacred by an evil bigot? I've no doubt that DC is good, but the Marvel Universe just seems more realistic to me; Spider-Man is distrusted and feared as opposed to Superman's universal adoration and respect. I like characters who are seriously flawed and morally ambiguous (part of why I love the Scoobies so much!). Mind you, I love the FF and my friend always slags them off for being too "goody-goody."

I'm sure if some of the characters you mentioned existed in the MU, I would like them, but it's so hard to break into a continuity which has been around for decades, especially as there are no movies to ease me in gently (I got into Marvel through the X-Men movies). But I don't dislike DC for being too powerful; Victor and Molly are two of the most powerful heroes in the MU! As for the Avengers, I always thought of them as Earth's weakest heroes! Hawkeye, Captain America, Pym, Wasp, and Black Widow all have fairly crap powers; the X-Men and the FF would kick their asses! And it's not so much that I need to have gay characters, it's just that Marvel prides itself on it's outcast heroes and messages of tolerance, yet is too afraid to have an A-list gay character. Even the gay teens have not been identified as "gay", just that they "can be themselves", "have a special relationship" and "like other girls." It's time to say the G word people...

By the way, here's why I think Iceman's gay:

• He's desperate to be normal, and is reluctant to be his true self (such as using his powers to their full extent).
• Upon seeing Jean for the first time, he said "A girl, big deal!"
• His relationship with Lorna seems based purely on bitterness that Havok stole her from him.
• During the 80s (I think), he dated an alien called Cloud who turned into a man.
• He said he preferred it when the X-Men were just "Me, Scott, Hank, Warren, and Xavier, all alone in our little boy's club."
• Upon discovering that Northstar is gay, he asked "I mean, why would I know? It's not like we're..."
• Mystique is a shapeshifter, and can therefore be any gender.

I don't think it's deliberate, but it's a nice little theory. :)

Anyway, will defo watch that episode you mentioned, just as soon as I've finished watching S4 of X-Men Evolution (which Rogue and Beast are amazing in BTW!) Paul730 14:49, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Just wanted to know; in Civil War, are you pro or anti-reg? Paul730 09:26, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Please watch your tone

Please mind your language when editing on Wikipedia - I quote, 'Dear god help us. Another useful creation by Wolf of Fenric', a comment left by yourself on the Templates for deletion page. Blasphemy and sarcasm have no place on Wikipedia. I refer you to WP:ICA. Wolf of Fenric 15:40, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Silly!

You know you can't just add an LGBT cat: [1] - you've got to provide a reference :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 19:56, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Jack/Boe

Right now, as far as I'm concerned, the Captain Jack article is your baby. Where do you stand on the Face of Boe thing, and how should it be handled in the article, since there's some discussion as to whether it's true or not. Paul730 19:14, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Soz for the spoiler. :( Great ep, though. Paul730 19:50, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Just wondering why the also known as 'Face of Boe' was changed, considering he was known as that, even if it doesn't necessarily mean that he IS the Face of Boe. MadJaxter 21:49, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Have added an invisible thingymajiggy (technical terms right here!) to the article asking people to stop changing to pansexual (the same thingy is used on Spike's page to stop people from adding his surname Pratt). Maybe that'll stop people. :) Don't know about the Boeshane/Boe System... maybe system means solar system or something? As for the DWM citation, why not move the sentence to the talk page asking people if they have the issue? I'm sure someone'll have the issues and re-add it eventually. The Agatha Harkness stuff is still in the wrong place but I don't know enough about how Jack was created to warrant an "creation" section; maybe stick it in the Characterisation section? (What exactly should be in a characterization section? I wrote one for Buffy's page, but I don't know if it's any good) Also, do we need to list all the TW eps? He's the main character and in every ep so far, wouldn't it be better to just link to a list of TW episodes?

Finally, what did you think of the finale? I liked it (not as good as Doomsday) but I think "killing" the Master was a bad idea. What a brilliant direction it would have been if the Master had been an unwilling companion/prisoner of the Doctor, only to gradually (and reluctantly) redeem himself; bit like Spike in S4. Paul730 00:19, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

The reasons I didn't like it as much as AoG/DD was because it was just so fucking weird! After two heart-stoppingly exciting episodes, this seemed a little too slow. Also, it was so obvious that the whole apocalypse was going to be deleted from time because how can a nice kiddy show like Sarah Jane Adventures exist in the Days of Future Past. And what the hell was with that creepy little CGI baby thing that the Doctor turned into? Still don't really get that. I loved the Face of Boe twist, and liked that Jack finally died. Personally, existing for eternity is the most horrific thing I can think of. Bit annoyed that Martha's gone (so much better than immature brat Rose) but liked that she left on her own terms. Paul730 00:53, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

BTW, about Civil War, I was totally anti-reg during all the hype, but when I actually read the book (I buy TPBs), I switched sides. The SRA was perfectly reasonable IMO, and the writers needlessly villainised Iron Man by having him clone Thor, imprison heroes, and recruit villians. Why shouldn't the heroes be registered? You don't have people driving cars without a license, so why should people be allowed to fly around shooting lasers without one. Captain America, and the writers, came across as very immature and childish to me, desperately clinging on to the Silver Age out of nostalgia and fear of change. Mutants shouldn't be registered, they're just civilians, but superheroes should be held accountable for their actions. Paul730 00:53, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that everybody with super powers should be registered, just the ones who actively go out and fight crime. Likewise, any superheo who doesn't have powers should be registered. Oh, and my friend tells me that Fables, which I love despite having only read vol 1, is a DC book, so there you go. So far, I like Bigby Wolf.  :) Paul730 01:12, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

In the Cap Jack article, is it necessary to mention an ep in the prose and then cite the same episode in the references list, all the same sentence. This happens round about the "Keep Killing Suzie" section of the plot section. Seems a bit like overkill. Paul730 21:54, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Crap. Does that mean I have to go through all the Buffy pages citing bloody episodes left, right and centre. *Sigh* I find the reference numbers a bit distracting myself. Oh well... Paul730 22:01, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Who should I credit on the buffy episodes? Joss, the writer, director, or just the writer and director? Are are things like networks, cities, and stations really necessary? Paul730 22:30, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect Attribution

Do not attribute this "original research" to me. I was correcting the spelling of a word on the page when there was an edit conflict. I added the lost text as I found it back to the page. You really should find out who inserted the paradox discussion text into the page and complain to them, rather than me. Please do not make false accusations that you can not support.

Spike

I am working on Spike's article to try and get it to GA. I have just spent the last God-knows-how-many-hours citing every single bloody episode mentioned in the page, and I still haven't finished yet. Then I go here[2] and it says I don't even have to cite episodes. If anyone reverts all the work I've just done, I will slit their throats. *Sigh* Am stressed out. Anyway, like I said, I haven't finished yet, but any help you'd be willing to offer would be greatly appreciated. I'm concerned that the article is too long, particularly the relationships section, so please feel free to delete anything you consider unnecessary and if I disagree, I'll tell you. I'm also worried that I was a bit over-zealous with the citations and that all the refs I added make the article difficult to edit. I still have to write a decent intro (you're good at that so please help) and include something about the action figures that exist. (You should write something about the Cap Jack toys, as it is a reflection of how popular/well-known the character is). I know you're busy, but please help... Paul730 12:46, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Spike/Angel appearances

Hi, so I was lookin Angel and Spike apparances, and there Season 8 cameo is not mentioned. Do you think I should just mention it perhaps, at the bottom, or add it as one of there appearances. They are included in the list of charactors for The Long Way Home, anyway. We don't have to mention it at all, I'm just looking for more things to do...---Smartjoe299

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

Delivered on 16:00, 6 July 2007 (UTC).

Chronology spam.

Failed by half an eyebrow. As such, I have two questions: 1) When should the list be renominated? 2) And is the content in the current version better than the previous version? Thanks, Will ^(talk) 00:54, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Plot section/relationship

Hi man, welcome back. I was working on the Jason Voorhees article and asked an editor there to look at the Spike page. He said that it resembled a real-life biography too much, as opposed to simply outlining his role in the series. He also accused the "relationships" section of being too fannish. As much as it makes me want to rip my hair out, he has a point, and I wanted to ask your opinion about it since it concerns Jack's article too. How should character histories/relationship sections be dealt with, because I've heard different stuff from different people. I personally do think that the Buffy pages are far too "fannish", and would like to change this. TBH, I almost feel like washing my hands of the Spike article, because it feels like I've been working on it forever and it's not getting anywhere.

PS, I had a snoop on your myspace to check you weren't dead. Get bebo already, much better. :P. Paul730 15:49, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

You say you would argue for the inclusion of Jack's relationships, so please do so. I think his relationship with the Doctor is relevant, as is the other Captain Jack (since that was clearly a very strong love story). Others like Estelle and Rose should also deserve brief mentions, I think, but his flirtation with Carys, Martha, and Chantho seem pretty trivial and not worth mentioning at all. (The fact that he is flirtatious is relevent, but do we really need to list everyone he's every flirted with) Currently, I don't think Gwen is notable, but will be later. Also, couldn't these entire sections be changed to prose instead of bullet points? They seem to attract very trivial detail, when the relationships could be summed up much more briefly, in an overall context regarding the primary character. Paul730 17:18, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Where will I see them? I do like Torchwood, but tend to look down on it a little as being a bit naff and childish ("Oh my God! It has sex and blood and swearing!") Later, I've been watching South Park religiously; I'm curious about what traits you share with Butters? :) Paul730 17:26, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Here's my edited version. I know I've ommitted Rose; I'm not sure how to deal with her since, although their relationship was apparently strong, it wasn't all that romantic after WWII episodes. Please re-add her however you feel necessary. Also, I might have deleted some of your references. :( Better check that.

Jack is incredibly flirtatious, with references made to relationships and affairs he has had in the past which vary from boyfriends and girlfriends to one-night stands, and is quoted to be willing to "shag anybody who's gorgeous enough". Noting Jack's predilection for flirting, the Doctor notes that even saying "hello" counts as flirting for Jack, since Jack tends to introduce himself in a very charming and flirtatious manner. Occasionally, Jack displays more profound affections and romantic interests with both men and women. His first known love was Estelle Cole who he met in the 1940s when she was only 16, but he disappears from her life. He later keeps an eye on her when she is an old woman, and performs little odd jobs for her, with her under the belief that he is her former love's son. When sent back to the 1940s, Jack meets the man whose name he has adopted, the real Captain Jack Harkness. Under the assumed name James Harper, he forms a bond with the real Jack after realising Harkness is gay, and trapped in a closeted heterosexual relationship. Despite the era, the two men appear to fall in love and publicly and passionately kiss in a teary farewell before Jack returns to the present.

Jack's relationship with the Doctor is slightly more complex. When Jack meets him and Rose, he and Jack do not get along at first, but become closer friends as the series progresses. In "Boom Town" the two jokingly flirt, and in "The Parting of the Ways" Jack kisses both him and Rose in what he thinks may be a final goodbye. In "Utopia", Jack flirts slightly with the Doctor, remarking that the Doctor's "new regeneration...[is] kind of cheeky." The Doctor, in turn, acknowledges the advance with a suggestive chuckle. Throughout Torchwood it is evident Jack longs greatly to see the Doctor again, comparing a hypothetical apparition of the Doctor to those of his friends' loved ones. Noting Martha's affections towards the Doctor in "The Sound of Drums", he asks "you too?" when seeing the Doctor unknowingly deflate her. While Jack has hinted that he has feelings for the Doctor, the Doctor has never indicated that they would be requited, and is very rarely depicted as having a romantic side whatsoever.

Jack has also displayed romantic interest in several members of his Torchwood crew. He and Ianto maintain flirty banter from "Everything Changes" onwards, with the first suggestions of the two being in a sexual relationship shown in "They Keep Killing Suzie". Despite conflicts in "Cyberwoman" and "Countrycide" and Ianto's mourning of Lisa, the progression of their relationship continues into "End of Days", where Ianto tearfully mourns a dead Jack, and immediately kisses him on instant of witnessing his resurrection.

He takes an interest in Gwen Cooper after initially meeting her, recruiting her into Torchwood. While there has been indication of some affection, such as a somewhat suggestive firing range session in gun training in "Ghost Machine",, it has never led anywhere. Also, he actively supports her standing relationship with her boyfriend, Rhys Williams. Jack and Gwen have kissed in the second episode and first finale episode of Torchwood. Discussing the characters' connection, portrayer Eve Myles described the relationship as possessing a "palpable love", and states that despite the lack of physicality between the characters in series one, "with Jack and Gwen, it’s the real thing and they’re going to make you wait for that."

BTW, you're sweet and innocent? Mmm. Am suddenly reminded of my best friend, who acts sweet and innocent in order to lower people's estimations of him, when really he's got them sussed. You're clearly both evil geniuses.  ;) Paul730 18:02, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean by "the bullets points will keep them plenty?" The reason I'm not sure about bullet points is, while working on Jason's page, I listed some of his pop culture appearances, and was told off for using lists. Lists aren't appropiate unless it's a "list of" page, apparently.

I'd describe myself as being like Andrew Wells. While fully aware of my sexuality, I'm far too immature at the moment to actually be able to have a successful relationship with someone. I'm also incapable of living in the real world or accepting responsibility for my own life, and enjoy distorting the truth into a more entertaining version. Not the most flattering of comparisons, but there you go. Paul730 18:19, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. I get what you mean, but I think you can make the point about him being a Cassnova without listing all his conquests. After all, we comment that Buffy is good at slaying vampires, but we don't list every monster she's ever slain. I think relationships section often take up far too much space, Buffy's being one of the worst offenders that I've seen. Paul730 18:35, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Buffy relationships

I recently created a sand box for the Buffy Summers article, and rewrote the entire relationships section. I asked the editor who originally complained about these sections to look it over and give his opinion; here's what he said. The main issues seem to be making a point about the character in general and how the writers approach them, rather than simply rehashing the plot. I think we should take his criticism and use it for the Captain Jack page. Paul730 14:20, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't know, let's discuss it a little more. After all, Captain Jack got to GA status with that section intact, so it can't be that bad. Why do you think we should delete it? Paul730 10:01, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Maybe we should just merge that section with "Characterization". Remove the details and plot summaries, and just include something about his flirtatiousness there. Paul730 11:10, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. :) Oh, and I hate Gwen as well! GMTA. Paul730 11:21, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh. My. God. Spike is gonna get it on with Captain Jack? Why is this not headline news? Paul730 00:16, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

The Chain

I haven't got it yet! :( I'm so blonde, I thought it was out next week, I only just noticed on the comic website that's already out. My friend is going to shit, he's on holiday and they sell out like crazy. I've seen a couple of pictures from it, but no major spoilers. Tell me about it (without spoilers!). Paul730 00:23, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I already knew about the fairies and the past Slayers; somebody uploaded a scan onto their Bebo, but it was too small to read the dialogue. Needless to say I will be going to Forbidden Planet soon as tommorow! And I was gutted we didn't get a Faith spin-off ever since Go Ask Malice (Best Buffy novel ever!). I hope it doesn't get too Charmed-y. I used to like Charmed but I got totally sick of it. Every episode was the same; the sisters stand about and talk about ther love lives, some guy dressed in black teleports in and kidnaps Wyatt. The sisters show up, Paige orbs an energy ball into a demon, Piper blasts the other demons without even moving, and Phoebe stands about doing nothing like a tit in a trance. Then everybody goes home for the nice, domestic ending where everthing is wrapped up with a bow. Urgh. Buffy is so much better. Paul730 00:38, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I really want Shadow Puppets, Asylum, and Vs Dracula but my crappy Glaswegian Forbidden Planet doesn't sell the Angel graphic novels (except Old Friends, which I bought and hated). I might just get the individual issues of SP (if #1 is still out), even though I hate individual issues. As for canon, I pretty much just count anything I like in my own "personal" Buffy canon, like Go Ask Malice and Buffy: Year One (have you got the Omnibus, it's surprisingly good). What do you think of my sand box, I noticed you made some edits. I've been pestering every editor I can into helping me, but have got zero response, except for User:Bignole, who's been really helpful. Paul730 00:53, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I bought The Chain today. There was only one Jo Chen cover in the whole shop, so I trekked the half-hour walk to the other comic book store in the poor part of town to buy another one for my friend. Honestly, I'm such a good person. ;) Sadly, both FP and A1 comics only had Shadow Puppets #2, so I must wait for the TPB if it ever comes out. As for The Chain, I wasn't crazy about it. It was enjoyable enough, and I certainly don't object to the occasional one-off like this, but it didn't really live up to the last 4 issues. Maybe it was because I don't know Fake Buffy like I do the other characters, or because I didn't like the artwork (didn't even recognise Vi). Oh well, NFFY will make up for everything. :) Paul730 05:30, 28 July 2007 (UTC) Preview of NFFY here. Faith has to fight vampire children. Paul730 23:00, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Is there any news about After the Fall? I hope Kennedy is given a decent role in Buffy Season 8; she could be a good character if they put the effort in but I'm afraid that the Kennedy-bashers will put the writers off. What do you think? Paul730 23:27, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you. Kennedy is a decent character; I'm glad she arrived and Tara stayed dead because I hate it when death gets retconned (except when it's Buffy, Angel, Spike, or Cordelia). People only hate Ken because they love Tara, the same way they hated Tara because they loved Oz (I'm not crazy about Oz - too boring). And I'd like to see a Willow spin-off, especially since she's barely one of the Scoobies anymore anyway (rather habe a Faith one, though). Even a Ken one-shot would be good to get inside her head and flesh her out a little. Paul730 23:37, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure Kennedy could hold her own book... maybe a limited series :/. Why do you think a book would be good? I'd leave Fred dead - her death was powerful and permanent and retconning it would ruin it - but Cordy's return would be amazing. Her death was total Buffy blasphemy - she's an original! Originals are supposed to be immortal. My friend and I came up with a fan fiction excuse to bring Cordy back - the PTB get so sick of her bitching that they send her back down to Earth just to get rid of her for a while. Lol, I'm sure Lynch could do better. :) I hope they vampify Gunn and bring Lorne back - what else do you hope for S6? Paul730 23:50, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Just got your other message - speak to you later. Paul730 23:50, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

They're actually making Ripper? OMG, you always know all the good geek gossip. Season 8, Season 6, a Giles one-off, the Buffyverse is getting back into the swing of things and I'm fucking loving it. :) Paul730 15:46, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Countdown Edits

You and LordSinestro need to discuss the content matter to resolve your differences of opinion on the edits. No sense in it getting reverted back and forth. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 17:07, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

You arent allowed to do what your doing you are removing to much information Quit.Lord Sinestro 17:08, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Ive done put my thoughts on there and ill put them here. You ARE vandalisng the page. You ARE removing a big portion of the article. And You ARE trying to edit war. Also you HAVE also violated the 3RR rule. I would suggest you leave the article alone unless you do constructive edits. Thanks.Lord Sinestro

You both need to calm down. This matter can be discussed, but not if you two are going to snipe at each other. It's a difference of interpretation. It isn't like the other guy shot your dog and ran off with your wimmin-folk. Please try to approach the matter professionally and politely, please. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 18:06, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Free use images

Please don't replace free use images with fair use equivalents. Have a look at the non-free content policy. Thanks. Addhoc 12:09, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Pyrokinesis

Hi Zythe. I believe we've spoken before about an unrelated matter regarding categories. This time, although I kind of saw why you decided to redirect Pyrokinesis in fiction to Pyrokinesis, shouldn't you have alerted it beforehand on the talk page? This change of yours caused a number of redirect links at the list of Pokémon articles which now have to be fixed. Your thoughts on this solution? Lord Sesshomaru

Countdown Edits (again)

You might find it useful to try and sidestep the edit-warring by talking about the matter with the other editor in question or, failing that the Discussion page. Revert-warring - especially over uncited statements that I am going to remove without reference - is simply disruptive. I am not bitching at either one of you; I have been in edit wars before myself, and I can understand the impulse, but we cannot have it here. Discussion works. Even if it doesn't, its the next step in Dispute Resolution. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 18:07, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I can dig that you get annoyed; there are people in WP that drive me nuts with their editing behavior. The problem I found with the editing there is that no one was giving enough explanation as to the purpose of the edits (or the addition for that matter). If I up and reverted what you thought was a good edit and didn't explain myself, you'd be understandably miffed. Respect goes a long way here, and its easy to use someone's past behavior to crucify them at every turn. Most people who are jackasses in WP eventually self-destruct; I have seen it happen. I am not calling either you or B.S. a jackass - I am saying that you guys will likely be able to edit with each other more smoothly if you take the first revert of the other to the Discussion page, and let them know in the edit summary before you revert it back to the prior version. Consensus is a Good Thing. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 18:16, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Thought you should know that LordSinestro was banned as a sock of WrestlingLover (and probably BlueShrek as well). - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 17:58, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

It's been quite obvious from the start: his knowledgeable behaviour of editing, knowing about adopt-a-user, familiarity with 3rr and a bunch of other stuff sealed his fate. Lord Sesshomaru

Btw, I wasn't talking about your politeness, Zythe. I was talking about the one who thought we all were fools for not recognizing the connection between the different Supermen with the rest of the DC universe. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 14:50, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Captain Jack

I was just wondering if you were still working on this article. Are you going to try and get it to FA status? My biggest problem with it right now if the appearances list. I know that's how they're always listed in the DW pages, but it's going to double in size after TW S2 and will just look awful. What are your thoughts on this article in general? Paul730 21:57, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Lucky bugger, everyone's got a boyf but me. :( Oh well. I spoke to my friend yesterday and told him all the Buffyverse gossip, and he was like "What, I'm gone for three weeks and all this new stuff happens?" He's such a geek, he took his boxset with him to Spain lol. Paul730 22:13, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Here's a Buffy quiz you can take if you have ten hours to spare (it's pure long). I was Batman on the superhero one, and I was Giles in this one, although Spike and Willow were runners up. I'm quite pleased with that. :) Paul730 13:42, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I just took another one and was equally the Hulk and Catwoman, with Spider-Man as a runner-up. Lol, these tests are such a crock but they're good for your ego! Paul730 13:50, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Lol, I love Harmony she's so cute. You seem to identify stongly with naive blondes (Butters). Paul730 21:06, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Am extremely hungover. Aftershock should be banned *groan* Paul730 13:06, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Is the lead section for the Cap Jack article long enough? Other FA articles have longer intro - maybe summarise the info about critical reception? I also think that his character history should be shortened a little, for only one season and a few guest appearances it's a little long. No mention whatsoever of his appearances in the books? I'm wondering whether the character history should be changed to "appearances" like my Buffy sandbox or Jason's article. The only thing is, Jack has such a complicated history that it might be best to keep it in chronological order. What do you think? Paul730 17:01, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I've been told that Andrew isn't the best example to follow since it's basically just a big plot summary with very little OOU info. I'm not sure how much I agree with that - yes, Andrew's article doesn't have as much OOU as Jabba the Hutt's or Superman's, but it's unfair to expect a minor TV character to live up to massive pop-culture icons like that. Jack's article is definitely close to FA, but that plot summary will bring it down I think. Anyway, enjoy your film. :) Paul730 17:17, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Through the Looking Glass (Lost)

How's it going? --thedemonhog talk • edits 17:47, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Countdown

Why does the information need to be repeated? I dont see how its helpful to the article. If you could explain that would be great. Thanks! :) Wrestlinglover420 21:47, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Thats not really a valid reason for the repetition the spot its in explains it clearly enough. I have asked a admin to step in lets see what he thinks.Wrestlinglover420 22:02, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Zythe, what did you mean about the refs here? How can they be corrected? Lord Sesshomaru

Whoniverse

Lovely improvement on the lead at Whoniverse! It's clean and economical now.  :) CzechOut 23:26, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Why would I be mad? Your solution was downright elegant. CzechOut 23:36, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

If and when you get a few moments, please stop by my little whiteboard for some musings about the way to change the "Features" section at Whoniverse. At the moment, I'm writing in a quick and unreferenced way, just trying to find the focus of the section. It's in no way finished, but I certainly wouldn't mind you stopping by to offer suggestions at any stage. CzechOut 04:46, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Jack FAC

Yep, will look at it for you. Been busy today with my guinea pigs so I haven't had time yet. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 18:46, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

The character history looks much better now that it's been condensed, but I'm not sure about the flashbacks section. Do events which were only mentioned deserve as much recognition as those depicted on-screen? It's confusing, because, like Spike and Angel, Jack's backstory is comprised of flashbacks and revelations throughout two seperate shows, so piecing them together in an out-of-universe manner is tricky. I would also recommend changing the subheadings; things like "Meeting the Doctor" and "Leading Torchwood" should maybe be changed to simply "Doctor Who" and "Torchwood for real-world context. Speaking of real-world context, I met a nutter on the South Park pages earlier today who was arguing that Kenny should not be treated as a fictional character because there's a chance he could be real in another dimension or quadrent. I was pretty lost for words.

Anyway, I asked another editor to look at Jack's article and here's his advice:

I just walked in the door and saw it. My first comment was going to be about that. You have redundant sections. You cannot have a "Character History" and an "Appearances" section. They constitute the same information. Merge them is the best bet. Also, the image of the cast of Torchwood, doesn't meet fair use criteria. This is an article about Jack Harkness, not the entire cast of Torchwood. Someone needs to check citation #37, because you can see the code in the reference section. I haven't read the article and I already stumbled across the first peacock term - "tumultuous" - in the first sentence of "Character history". So, that says to me that it probably needs a good copy edit to remove any other similar wording. This, "Jack can both be compassionate and ruthless." has no citation. It would be considered original research to note instances of his actions and then draw your own conclusions. Also, you cite 4 episodes in that succeeding sentence, one of them is cited twice.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 21:04, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Paul730 21:07, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Looks better. I would probably put the appearances stuff first. The way I saw Jason Voorhees was that, if you didn't know what he did in fiction-land then you probably wouldn't be able to fully grasp what kind of characterizations he exhibits. I would definitely put cultural impact/reception last, and is there more there? What kind of popular culture impact has he had?  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 21:39, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Bigs that it looks better, but that Agatha Harkness stuff really needs a better home. Is there not enough info to justify a brief "Concept and creation" section? Has RTD never explained how/why he created Jack on the Series 1 DVDs? Paul730 21:45, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd go ahead and be bold. When I get a chance to sit down and read the whole thing I'll put any criticism on the FAC page.

Oops - edit conflict. Here we go:-

Yes, this is a big improvement. The "creation" section looks great, even though it's brief. Maybe move the Dead Ringers stuff to the "cultural impact" section since it's not an "official" appearance? Jason's parodies are in a "mass media" section as opposed to actual appearances. I still think we should change the subheadings in "appearances" - "Leading Torchwood" is going to grow humungous, so maybe split it up by seasons or something? Definitely move your sandbox into the main article. :) Paul730 22:12, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Do you want to put the "critical reception" quote in a little box like the earlier one? BTW, the "Captaincy" section looks a little original researchy to me. Any RTD/JB quotes to back it up? Paul730 22:21, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Lol, just imagining some captain on a boat reading Wikipedia and crying "But he's not a real Captain!" The inconsistency of the boxes/no boxes is annoying me a little. Unless you really don't want to, maybe we should un-boxify the other quote just to match? Lol, being anal is frustrating! Paul730 22:33, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I meant the last quote in the last section - not sure if the other one deserves boxification... might as well keep it. Lol, boxification is a funny word. :) Paul730 22:47, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Lol, saw your sarky edit summary. If you don't like the quote boxes then delete them - I just think it should be all or nothing for consistency. Paul730 22:56, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

The article looks pure good now (aesthetically anyway, I'll give it a careful look over tomorrow) but I'm still not sure about those subheadings...? Paul730 23:16, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

No, don't get rid of the subheadings, just change them to something more OOU. Does "thanks for the help" mean "Goodnight Paul"? Cause if so, then I agree. *Yawn* Speak to you later! Paul730 23:24, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I condensed Jack's appearances section further, but I'm still not really loving this whole section. It's currently still reading like a character history, and it's quite confusing how he jumps from show to show. Maybe we should split this section into Doctor Who appearances and Torchwood appearances, rather than have it all running chronologically. I'm not sure if that's the way to go, but something needs to be done. It's not that it's too long, it just feels more like a character history. :/ Paul730 01:28, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I like that idea. It takes the focus from "what's canon". You can summarize everything that occurred on Doctor Who and everything that occurred (currently occurring) on Torchwood. If need be, make mention that the shows intertwine (if they do), with the character appearing on both shows at the same time. I would do that later part at the beginnig of the "Appearances" section, before you start getting into the summary of what he did on each show. Kind of like how I mentioned Jason's appearances in both films and literature before I broke down what he did in those appearances: Jason was a minor character in the original Friday the 13th, where he appeared as a hallucination of the main character Alice Hardy, but went on to become the main antagonist of the series. Only in Friday the 13th: A New Beginning does Jason reappear as a hallucination. The silver screen is not the only place Jason has appeared; there have been literary sources that have either expanded the universe of Jason, or been based on a minor aspect of him. -- Like this, only for Jack.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 01:37, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I think comprehensive prose is fine, but there's nothing wrong with a chronological order with the character history. Without it, it's gonna encourage episodic updates for each show, a new section if he ever appears on Sarah Jane and some confusing overlap bits (End of Days/Utopia).~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 12:03, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

The article itself will encourage episode updates, and technically, keeping in chronological order as a way of chronicleling his fictional life kind of goes against WP:WAF, because it's written like a biography and fictional characters should have have biographies written about them.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 19:00, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh, right, well then Andrew Van De Kamp doesn't meet a lot of the standards that Jack Harkness is being put against. It's not exactly in-universe if you cite to episodes, and give out-of-universe context to the history though, is it?~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 20:23, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't, and the first chance I get, unless someone beats me to it, I plan on putting Andrew up for WP:FAR. I never took place, nor knew about Andrew's FAC. I could pick on that article as well. I can find issues with just the infobox itself. The article is built on IU information. The OOU information consists of about 7kb of the 30kb (not readable prose, but including all the coding and stuff) article. That's not FA, that's not WP:WAF. I'm sorry if it looks like I'm picking on your article, but I just have an entirely different level of standards when it comes to being FA. There's a reason I haven't nominated Jason to for FAC, because I honestly don't think it's ready. I have no doubt it would pass as it is right now, with tweaks per outside views that would come with an FAC, but I don't believe it's ready, yet. Andrew has 3 images in the character history section. Remember how Captain Jack got grilled on that one image of Jack coming from the Doctor? I want Jack to be the best it can be, and I don't find Andrew an acceptable example to follow, but that's my opinion.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 21:14, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

You've been loads of help, I understand it's not a character you're invested in which is what makes your opinion all the more valuable.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 21:18, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Um, I'm afraid all your edits are going to be reverted (not out of meanness), because I've had the entire page up trying to clean up all the references. I've been taking care of changing Russell's "T." to a "T" also.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:05, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to try and take care to make sure that whatever you did that I fix those things as well so that you don't have to redo them.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 23:10, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

it was only a case of Notepad.exe, replace "Russel T." and "Russell T." with "Russell T".~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 23:13, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Mr Harkness

The article appears to discuss his being labelled "pansexual" or "omnisexual" twice. I'm not sure what you want to do with that.

Oh, and I've checked over the punctuation: it appears fine, British-wise. --Mark H Wilkinson ^{(t, c)} 06:46, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I have no strong feelings on this one. I only noticed it because the mentions are quite close together. --Mark H Wilkinson ^{(t, c)} 12:31, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Openly "___"

In that case, just call him the first bisexual character; it's simpler than faffing around with "openly" anything. Although I should point out that many characters didn't have sexual identities conferred on them by onscreen coding. --Mark H Wilkinson ^{(t, c)} 16:15, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Scratch that. While "openly non-heterosexual" doesn't in any way improve on "openly bisexual" in terms of preventing the reader from asking "Were there closet characters before?", alternatives to either run into further problems. Not only was there one prior implicitly variantly-sexualised character (Alpha Centauri, hermaphrodite), but many characters didn't have sexualities assigned to them (we just make assumptions). But if we start saying "first human character that is definitely gay", it's a bit clumsy. I've reverted to your version, anyhow; you can have it out with Tony on the AfD. (After all, we do say Mickey's "the first non-white human companion of the Doctor ever seen on screen".) --Mark H Wilkinson ^{(t, c)} 16:38, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

AfD. :| Eep that would be scary.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 16:48, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Hey

You dont own the articles and the thing you provided doesnt say not to do the edits i have done. Feel free to discuss it on the talk page or provide something saying i should do it. Also I suggest you go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ownership_of_articles . I hope this clears this up for you.Wrestlinglover420 18:37, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Uh yeah you do. You want it your way and your trying to edit war with me for no reason. Ill leave it alone but eventually ill get it back my way. Wrestlinglover420 19:48, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Ditto. I see several other editors agree with me.Wrestlinglover420 19:54, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Andrew

Andrew Van De Kamp has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Bignole (talk • contribs)

I'm wondering why you deleted Superman of Earth-D from the Alternate Versions of Superman?

Superman of Earth-D was created by writer Marv Wolfman. Superman of Earth-D appeared in Legends of the DC Universe: Crisis on Infinite Earths as an analogue of Earth-1 and Earth-2 Superman. Consquently, this version of Superman also bore the name Clark and Kal-El. He was member of the Justice Alliance of America (that Earth's analogue of the Justice Society of America and Justice League). Unlike the Superman of Earth-1 and Earth-2, Superman of Earth-D appeared to be a ethnically black human being, hailing from Krypton. Unlike the Superman of Earth-1 and Earth-2, this version of Superman was a Kryptonian who came to Earth only three years prior to the events of Crisis on Infinite Earths. He died during the events of Crisis saving his wife, the Supergirl, from one of the Anti-Monitor's shadow warriors.

Cannonically, Earth-D ceased to exist after the events of Crisis (as did the rest of the multiverse), but after the events of Infinite Crisis and the re-emergence of the Multiverse, Earth-D may still exist within the DC continuity as one of the 52 worlds.

I referenced the Legends of the DC Universe: Crisis on Infinite Earths, as well as being referenced in the Wikipedia articles on List_of_black_superheroes (confirming the existence Superman and Supergirl of Earth-D) and the Multiverse (DC Comics) (confirming the existence of Earth-D) respectively-- where he is still mentioned.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.2.44.14 (talk • contribs)

My question is this: Why would you delete Superman of Earth-D as an entry from Alternate Versions of Superman? No reason for the deletion was given.

Why on Earth do you mean "why did I delete it", I'm the one that ADDED it. They were actually deleted by 75.51.186.159 (talk · contribs) and I have reverted those edits. Don't make accusations like that at me again. :) ~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 13:43, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm new at this. Think you could use any of the info I presented above in the article?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.2.44.14 (talk • contribs)

He only had a minor appearances, I think over-expanding the mention of him would be tantamount to making it too in-universe, we have to analyze characters from an out-of-universe perspective.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 17:08, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Would you mind if I added an annotation with the source of the comic he came from? (Legends of the DC Universe: Crisis on Infinite Earths) I don't know how to add one of those footnote-y thingies, but I'd be willing to learn!

Faith cover

OOOOOH MMMYYYY GOOOODDDD!!!!!! Season 8 just gets better and better. Am I blind, or it that Buffy she's drowning? Thanks for reminding me. :) Paul730 15:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Faith looks positively psychotic in it, just the way we like her. ;) It's not just two sexy chicks getting their strangle on, it's a new Buffy cover and that's reason enough to squeal like a girl. Have already posted it on bebo and told my friends, lol. Paul730 15:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what my friend Cav is like, she thinks I'm a geek. But my friend Conor is as big a Buffy geek as me, so we talk about it constantly (he's actually the one who got me into it).

Just noticed something, Faith's drowning Buffy, and she hates it when they drown her. I don't really understand this story. I've heard previews but I'm not sure what to believe. Does Faith travel back in time to meet her father or something? If so, then why is Buffy in it? Maybe Faith fucked up the space time whatsit ala Rose in "Father's Day" and now the future is all screwy (hence the title). Am I right? Paul730 15:56, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Maybe I'm just incredibly gullible, but I remember someone saying that Faith was going to take her father to his prom, like in Back to the Future. I just assumed that was their Whedonverse way of saying that time travel would play a part. Maybe the whole thing was just a joke, you know what Joss is like in interviews. Interestingly, he also says he has plans for Fray, so maybe the time travel thing is also an introduction for a crossover (which I would welcome, being a fan of crossovers.) Paul730 17:05, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Heres the Back to the Future reference. It's on "Page 2", quite far down. Paul730 17:07, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

That would be excellent. Although I'm not sure if Faith would have much of a supporting cast - from what I hear her spin-off was going to be her travelling the world on her bike, presumably alone. I would love Andrew to be Faith's Watcher, evolving from barely-tolerated sidekick to crucial team member like Wesley did (but still retaining his geeky charm). Since Ripper is set pre-Season 8, that also makes Andrew a possibility to appear in that (I love Andrew, I want him in everything). I don't want Spike in either of them - I love him, but he's fine on Angel, we don't need to force him into every possible spin-off like they did to Wolverine.

Spin-off books would be great, but I don't want them to dilute the characters' relationships by splitting them up into different teams, like X-Men. Paul730 17:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Andrew is an untapped goldmine - he and Anya were such fortunate discoveries. BTW, I wouldn't count Exiles and Exalibur as X-teams, they're just Marvel superteams, really. Robin... meh, he's not my favourite character at all, but then neither was Wesley in Buffy so a spin-off could do him wonders. I think the theme of Faith was going to be "finding your place in the world", and Ripper is/was going to be loneliness. I'm really looking forward to the development of Giles - he kind of fell by the wayside after Season 4 and it's time to juice him up again. Do you want Ethan to appear in Ripper? Paul730 17:49, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Your idea sounds brilliant. Oooh, Torchwood gets burned, lol. I just hope the British characters have better accents than Molly and Dru (oi'm feelin a bit peckish). Giles is quite a deceitful character - I love how even the most beloved of characters in Buffy have flaws. Paul730 18:00, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the Fang Gang rule, I love their group dynamic. Spike's accent is fake remember - he puts it on to sound tough. Drusilla... well, she's mad isn't she. For all we know, everyone could sound like her in that little head of hers. Paul730 18:07, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Are you kidding, I would love to see Connor gutted on top of that tower! Wonder if Glory would make him wear the same dress as Dawn. Seriously though, I've thought of this before... I'd love to see a Buffyverse Exiles-style team with Vamp Buffy, Vengeance Demon Willow, Gay Xander, and Puppet Spike as regulars. Paul730 18:17, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Joss originally toyed with making Xander gay, so.... what if? He could go out with Larry. Puppet Spike could just be a disgruntled comedy character. Vamp Buffy could be Angelus's queen (after her human self killed Darla), ruling over an apoclyptic world. Paul730 18:25, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd rather the Buffyverse stayed the Buffyverse, with NO Hellboy whatsoever (God, I hated that film). I don't mind if it expands to include a few more spin-offs, but I don't want it to become part of the "Dark Horse" universe. Paul730 18:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Here's my perfect Buffyverse:-

Buffy the Vampire Slayer ongoing comic book

Angel ongoing comic book

Faith ongoing comic book

Ripper ongoing television series

Fray ongoing comic book

Willow limited comic book, possibly ongoing

Buffy Exiles limited comic book, possibly ongoing

Paul730 18:40, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Lol, the world without shrimp. Write some fan fic, I'd like to read it. Normally, I can't be arsed with fan fic but your alt team sounds good. Oh, and speaking of Gods, have you read Runaways yet? Paul730 19:01, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Get the little digests, they're easier to read than the big fat hardback, and you'll be able to get new ones when they come out (as opposed to waiting for the next hardback). Another book that I strongly reccomend getting that you might not think to buy is She-Hulk. Sounds silly I know, but it's the funniest super-hero comic I've ever read and she's such a lovable character. I plan on getting World War Hulk in TPB, even though I don't like the character, because it look really good. Paul730 19:23, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm so behind on Shulkie, I've only got the first three TPBs. It's really good, it's like a parody of the Marvel Universe - in one ish the Watchers are getting sued for being peeping toms, lol. Paul730 19:28, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I prefer Wiccan & Hulking, but the Runaways are better developed characters. I would hope that Wiccan would stay away from Anole since he's meant to be about fourteen or something. I love Anole, I want him to become a main X-man and be the token gay of the team. Paul730 19:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I want the Young Avengers to eventually merge with the normal Avengers into one big team (kill Yellowjacket and replace him with Stature). I want Hellion, Dust, Surge, and Anole to become main X-Men. The Runaways should stay solo - they're too good for the rest of the MU. Although, if their series eventually goes down the pan, I'd rather they intigrate with another team than disapear forever. Paul730 19:37, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Poor Tosh, you left her out. Tosh is the only supporting Torchwood character I like, with the upcoming exception of Martha, or course. Everyone seems to hate Donna in DW, but I love her, and am thoroughly looking forward to Series 4. :) Paul730 21:05, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Not sure I like her more than Jack, why do you, I thought you loved Jack? I hate Gwens hair - I don't think women look good with fringes. My friend had her hair cut and I slagged her off for looking like Gwen, lol. Paul730 21:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

You're right, Jack is much better in DW. I feel sorry for Tosh, she's so lonely and hard-done to, even her co-workers ignore her and treat her like crap. I'd like Owen to fuck off, he's an annoying tosser, and for Ianto to find himself a personality. I'd like a story-arc next season instead of random monster-of-the-week storylines, and for Torchwood to unite as a team instead of only focusing on one character an episode. I wonder how they're going to top Abbadon as a final villain visually. Paul730 21:29, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I mean - a story arc encompassing the whole season. And a bit of emotion - Captain Jack Harkness was good for that. Each episode in Series 1 felt so disconnected from the others, it would be nice to have some more continuity. Paul730 21:42, 15 August 2007 (UTC)