Talk:Department of Transport (Victoria, 2008–2013)

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Start date of 2008

Latest comment: 5 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Someone with more expertise might want to check out the start date. There are quite a few other articles which link to this page, which appear to show that this agency was in existence prior to that. See for example, Transport (Compliance and Miscellaneous) Act 1983. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 12:00, 2 December 2018 (UTC)Reply

Requested move 19 March 2019

Latest comment: 5 years ago7 comments5 people in discussion

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. No prejudice against speedy renomination, or for the nominator, per their comment, to propose a merge using proposed mergers. (closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 12:16, 27 April 2019 (UTC)Reply

– The Department of Transport, Planning and Local Infrastructure link redirects to this page. However this page currently covers the previous incarnation of DOT prior to 2013. The start date of 2008 is also suspicious as stated in previous section on this talk page, hence the title of this page should not contain the year "2008" unless verified.

The Department of Transport, Planning and Local Infrastructure is the last incarnation of the department prior to merging into Department of Economic Development, Jobs, Transport and Resources, hence it should be the new name of this article. It can be mentioned in the header paragraph something along the lines of "Prior to 2013, it was simply known as (or replaced) '''Department of Transport''', which in turn replaced the Department of Infrastructure in 2008".

The current DOT wikipage will then simply be named as Department of Transport (Victoria), replacing the existing disambiguation page. This is because, anyone typing Department of Transport (Victoria) into the search box is probably searching for the current DOT and not a past/defunct DOT. It is also unusual for an existing and current organisation/agency to include years in the title. An {{About}} tag can be added to the top of the current DOT page instead, linking to the old DOT wikipage and the Transport for Victoria page, replacing the function of the disambiguation page. Marcnut1996 (talk) 02:47, 19 March 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. bd2412 T 11:32, 28 March 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. SITH (talk) 11:25, 16 April 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Marcnut1996: I would probably support this proposal, but I'd politely ask that you withdraw it until the RfC currently underway at Talk:Ministry of Transport is complete. This is because the Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 January 25#Department of Transport (Victoria, Australia) struggled to reach consensus due to broader problems with the naming of Department of Transport articles. It was my intention to host a second RFC at Talk:Department of Transport (Victoria) to straighten out the Victorian issues once the broader problems were dealt with.

I'd also note that the Department of Transport in existence prior to 2008 was the 1992–1996 renaming of the Ministry of Transport, which existed from 1958 and which does not have an article yet. It was abolished in 1996 and replaced with the Department of Infrastructure (also sans article), which was then abolished in 2008 and replaced with this DOT.

~~I hope you are happy to contribute to the RFC underway presently and sort this one out in a couple of weeks. Triptothecottage (talk) 06:31, 19 March 2019 (UTC)~~Reply

Support per nom. RFC mentioned above is closed and this proposal is unaffected by it. —В²C ☎ 15:39, 14 April 2019 (UTC)Reply
Oppose Sorry to have changed my mind from my previous comment; no intention of being disruptive, I've just reconsidered. One of the difficulties with these articles – as was discussed in the RfD – is a lack of clarity about what constitutes a "new" department compared to a renaming. There are reasonable arguments to be made on both sides, but the following is my interpretation as it relates to WP:ARTICLETITLES policy.

Per WP:COMMONNAME, article titles need to follow what is used in a majority of sources. This raises the question about whether sources say the 2008-13 DOT is the same as DTPLI or something different. The Public Record Office Victoria – which can be considered "independent" here – lists the Department of Transport II (the subject of this article) and DTPLI as distinct entities. The Australian Broadcasting Corporation, reporting the machinery of government changes, called DTPLI a "a new super department of Transport, Planning and Local Infrastructure".^[1] The Age similarly called it "new mega-department of Department of Transport, Planning and Local Infrastructure".^[2] In short, the sources say that DTPLI should be considered a distinct entity from the pre-2013 DOT. I have no objection to someone coming up with a better naming scheme for the two DOTs – my decision was based on the precedent of federal departments like Department of Transport (1941–50), and I appreciate it's less than ideal – but what is being proposed here is simply misleading and not based on policy. If this is closed as no move then I will create a separate article for DTPLI to partially resolve the issue; I won't before this is closed lest I be accused of POINTiness. Triptothecottage (talk) 00:51, 15 April 2019 (UTC)Reply

References

^ Bell, Frances (9 April 2013). "Premier orders big shake up of public service". ABC News. Retrieved 15 April 2019.
^ Gordon, Josh (9 April 2013). "Departments get shake-up from Premier". The Age. Retrieved 15 April 2019.

Comment from nominator: Alternatively, the Department of Transport (Victoria) can include all incarnations of the transport department with the name Department of Transport, including 2008-2013 and the current incarnations. It can also be mentioned that between 2013 and 2018, the transport responsibilities lie within other departments Department of Transport, Planning and Local Infrastructure and Department of Economic Development, Jobs, Transport and Resources, both of which will have individual articles. Marcnut1996 (talk) 02:00, 17 April 2019 (UTC)Reply
Support per nom. Fishaharris (talk) 21:26, 17 April 2019 (UTC)Reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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[1] Bell, Frances (9 April 2013). "Premier orders big shake up of public service". ABC News. Retrieved 15 April 2019.

[2] Gordon, Josh (9 April 2013). "Departments get shake-up from Premier". The Age. Retrieved 15 April 2019.

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