Talk:Whitman College/Archive 1

Archive 1

list of presidents (yawn)

I'm just not interested in the list of presidents. just saying, don't need 'em, but if you disagree, how about a list of deans! and webmasters! dunno. maybe i'm misinformed. I have trouble imagining that for this university that the list is useful. 71.58.106.50 (talk) 16:03, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Major Cleanup Needed?

Half of the stuff in here is opinion, the article needs tonnes of citations and a lot of the sentences could be shorter and more direct. The introduction doesn't talk about the school, it is just a a rah-rah statement. What is this stuff about the mascot? Cite some Whitman Pioneer articles if you want to talk about it. I didn't find it to be much of an issue. If we want to talk about it, lets actually explain the issue. How does that imply cultural imperialism? Also, the name is the Whitman Missionaries, not Missionary.

I think this article should focus more on the way things are, not the way some feel they should be. And the stuff on championships is a little time sensitive.

If no one gets back on this, I will start going through and trying to edit the thing using citations and neutral tone. I think I will try to start sorting out some of the more cumbersome sentences.

Could we get a serious cleanup tag here?

History section is almost directly copy pasted from whitman college website. Citation 6 is a broken link. I think I covered most of the history in the introduction, will modify/reduce history section to reflect that.

Deckerla (talk) 15:38, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Mascot

Skimaxpower... here is the info I have from Tony Cabasco about the mascot.

"The official mascot is still the missionaries. I think the duck reference may have come from the ducks (and quails) on the admission publications that were used in the 90's. It's true that we had that theme (very Northwesty we thought), but the mascot has not been changed at all.

Hope that helps."

Tony Cabasco

Revmachine21...

I'm currently a Whitman Senior. As for the student body, the mascot is certainly an embarrasment. There is a sense that it remains only because changing it would angry certain (wealthy) alumni. The aministration has made clear attmepts to distance itself from the "Missionaries." Even the statue of Marcus Whitman is barely on the Whitman Campus - at the 5-way intersection of Boyer, Main, etc. - it is literally as far away from the Adminstration building as it can possibly be without technically being "off-campus."
Admissions office may say that their publications favor the ducks for aesthetic reasons. It may be true. However, I bet you a years tuition that they'll never return to a missionary with a shotgun.
Furthermore, Student Body events favor the "duck" mascot. Recent years have featured a "design your own duck" contest. The oversized (3 ft long) ducks are then scattered all over campus as temporary art. Very cool....and also a very obvious attempt by the student body to embrace a mascot that they can relate with.
Whitman is now, for better or for worse, a school largely full of secular suburban enviros. We like ducks. We don't like missionaries. To be sure, I don't speak for all the students....just the vast majority.
-Skimaxpower

Hey Ski... Rev again. Graduated '92 & the same debates went on then except our favored mascot was the Floober Owl or some such nonsense. I started maintaining Whitman's page because the content was an embarrassment and not representative of the quality of the school or its character. 2 paras long with the guy from A-Team and Batman the alum highlights. Completely undervaluing the money you / I paid for the education. Whitman cares so damn much about their donations and little about post-graduation success of the alum's.
You seem to be highlighting political activism in the student body that attends a fiscally conservative school with a hugh trust fund in a conservative part of the country. This message is not represented in the current article and maybe worth its own section. Activism is certainly a part of the school's student body character. There was an interesting story about college investments in apartheid South Africa before my time. At that time the student body set up a tent city outside of Baker hall until the trustees agreed to stop investing in SA b/c bad press.
I have been thinking of the next major redraft major header, "Student Life" with sub-categories with things like "Political activism", "Special Interests", "Greek Life" maybe others.

Rev...
First off, great work on updating the page. It looks slick, its tone is neutral, and it is efficiently informative. Indeed, you write like a Whitman grad. :-)
As for a "Student Life" section, it seems interesting. My concern however, is that student life is a subject whose content changes rapidly. Writing about student life at whitman would almost invariably reflect only the short time period that any one (or two) writer(s) was a student. It would take pages to consider all the trends (political activist causes for example) that have touched the campus through the years. Wikipedia it would seem, is for more general info like Marcus, Narcissa, Cronin, etc.
If you wanna write it, I'd be very interested to see what you come up with. Your work so far has been top notch. I don't doubt that you could come up with some really interesting stuff. I just wonder if it will have the same timeless quality as Adam West and the rest.
-Skimaxpower

Ski... thanks for the complement but I can't claim all the credit, a lot came from public sources. My main contribution was research time to liven up the information. Yes, Adam West is timeless but there is something to be said for the zeitgeist of the school. I am 12 years out from graduation and can't really provide this type of info. I will try to get to the outline amendment as soon as I can. I am working on a major addition to the computer security page now. So what's your major? I was a politics major myself.Revmachine21 07:49, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Rev... haha You were a politics major! Myself: Politics and History double major. Good luck with any future additions re: student life. I doubt I'll have time to contribute anything but minor edits though.

New info about the Mascot: At commencement 2005, retiring Whitman College President Thomas Cronin was none-too-vague about his personal desire to change the mascot to "something more appropriate." His decision to do so at his final speech confirmed what many of us have assumed all along: the admin doesn't like the mascot but keeps it around to keep the alumni happy.
The alumni (and their money) are the force that decides policy. The more that vocal alumni like Revmachine21 speak up, the more likely it is that the mascot will change to "something (anything?!?) more appropriate"
-Skimaxpower

As an older alumni (1990) I'm surprised that the current student body would want to change a unique ( is there another missionaries mascot somewhere in the universe ?) mascot to something as humdrum as "ducks." Tdewey 00:36, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

As a younger alumni (2008) I am also surprised. Whitman has its historical basis in Walla Walla and the Whitman Mission. To change the mascot would disregard that history. I guess you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all the people all the time. Deckerla (talk) 15:42, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Comprehensive Exams

I am changing the senior comprehensive exam section. It appears to have been written by someone who didn't realize that their major's way of doing things was not how everyone's does things... 70.36.0.149 08:27, 29 August 2006 (UTC)Ventifact

NPOV

This article does not read from a neutral point of view. It is written in a manner similar to a recruiting letter.

The claim that it is the best liberal arts college in the Pacific Northwest is particularly indulgent. I think Puget Sound, Lewis & Clark, and Willamette might take exception to that claim. I edited the sentence to read that is *one* of the best in the Pacific Northwest (which is true).

It's not that the information in this entry is wrong per se, but rather that it is written in a very rosy manner. I would not be surprised if much of it was assembled from the college's website (which is *not* a neutral source).

But some information is better than none, I suppose. Due to the nature of Wikipedia the info will have to stand as it is, considering that I certainly don't have time to neutralize its tone. But whomever is editing this page in the future might be wise to tone down the gushing affinity that's all over the entry.

~Samopolis

Reword as you feel appropriate but make sure to investigate your edits. Yeah a few phrases wax a little thick but 99% of content is verifiable by (1) the school's public information and (2) personal experience. Don't think we've strayed too far out of the bounds set by, let's say, Stanford University or Harvard University. BTW, being the best PN liberal arts school ranking by US News is objective, so we can say best in the Northwest. Revmachine21 14:17, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Lewis & Clark, Puget Sound, and Willamette might take exception to the claim but they are simply not as good as Whitman. Reed might be another story, but they seem to belong to their own category. Also, since they don't participate in rankings, if the claim to be the Northwest's best libarts college is phrased in terms of USNews rankings, then Whitman can indeed claim to be the best ("highest-ranked" or something would be appropriate). Nonetheless Sam's right about the article's POV, and moreover the "gushing" tone makes the article sound incredible (as in dubious) and makes Whitman look bad because its entry sounds trite.

Indeed the article reads like it was written by someone in the Communications/Alumni/Admissions Office, so much that I assumed someone working there had actually come here to spruce up the page.

Please sign your entries... and also, feel free to edit rather than snipe. I'm not married to the article. Revmachine21 10:31, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Princeton residential college

Most wikis with two or more meanings have a disambiguation page which allows the reader to choose between options. The current setup, especially considering that Princeton's Whitman College will open to students next year, relegates it to an unusual position.

Vanity postings

I'm concerned that some of the distinguished alumni listed are not very distinguished. I'd like to reach consensus on removing some of them.

Please sign your entries using four "~"'s... and also, feel free to edit rather than make comments. So which poor victims do you think are excize worthy? Revmachine21 22:49, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Most of the alumni post-1980 should not be on the list. I'd keep all the 1977 and prior alumni and post-1977 only keep Manning, Finkbeiner, Metcalf-Lindenburger, Backstrom and (maybe) Johnson and Valaas. I would also add Dan Donohue for 1988, BA Theater (currently Scar in National Lion King Tour). Tdewey 00:35, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Here are the soul's worthy of inclusion, IMO:

• 1980 - Rob Manning, BA Mathematics-Physics, Mars Pathfinder Flight System Chief Engineer Jet Propulsion Laboratory
• 1991 - William Finkbeiner, BA Anthropology, Washington State Senate majority leader 2003-present
• 1997 - Dorothy M. Metcalf-Lindenburger, BA Geology, NASA Astronaut Candidate
• 2000 - Daniel Baird, BA Chemistry, PhD Cornell University, currently an internationally recognized Molecular Biologist at UCSD
• 2000 - Ingrid Backstrom, Internationally-ranked freeskier.

Debatable souls, although many are published, perhaps if their works were included worthy of inclusion:

• 1980 - Mark Cohen, BA Economics, Author
• 1985 - Lance Norris, BA Dramatic Art, Mystic River and Be Cool
• 1985 - John Zilly, BA Philosophy, Author
• 1986 - Aaron Forsberg, BA History, Author
• 1990 - John Fulton, BA English, Author
• 1990 - Hunt Holman, BA Dramatic Art, Playwright
• 1992 - Annee Hartzell, BA Politics, Teacher of the Blind and Visually Impaired (although she's a fantastic person!)
• 1994 - Keith Pohs, BA Geology, Author
• 1994 - Ransom J. Bailey, BA English Literature, Attorney
• 1997 - Kathrin Ford, BA English, Poet
• 1998 - Shane Johnson, BA Theater, Actor
• 2002 - Katie Wilson, BA Politics, staff in the office of United States Vice-President Dick Cheney
• 2003 - Cris Pace, BA English, novelist, "Destiny's Knights" 2005
• 2004 - Stephen Beus, BA Music, Van Cliburn International Piano Competition Competitor
• 2005 - Elizabeth Pearson, BA Political Philosophy, Rhodes Scholar
• 2006 - Laura Valaas, BA Mathmatics, Nationally ranked nordic skier.

If you are ready to pull the trigger, go ahead and edit. Revmachine21 04:18, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I think Stephen Beus has accomplished more than enough to be included on this list. In terms of making it as a international concert pianist, he has already accomplished more than most musicians will even dream of. Check out his website - Stephen Beus - and read his reviews and concert schedule. Betowce 21:10, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I think most of these after 1980 should go. I'm OK with keeping Beus, Pearson, and Valaas, just as a nod to recent alumni. It's important to show that some alumni do exceptional things right out of college, not thirty years later. - Skimaxpower 10APR2007

I am not inspired enough to make direct edits... here's my keep / debate break down:

Keep

1. 1980 - Rob Manning, BA Mathematics-Physics, Mars Pathfinder Flight System Chief Engineer Jet Propulsion Laboratory
2. 1985 - Lance Norris, BA Dramatic Art, Mystic River and Be Cool
3. 1991 - William Finkbeiner, BA Anthropology, Washington State Senator 1995-2007
4. 1997 - Dorothy Metcalf-Lindenburger, BA Geology, NASA Astronaut Candidate
5. 2000 - Ingrid Backstrom, Internationally-ranked freeskier.
6. 2006 - Laura Valaas, BA Mathmatics, Nationally ranked Nordic skier.

Debatable....

1. 1985 - John Zilly, BA Philosophy, Author
2. 1986 - Aaron Forsberg, BA History, Author
3. 1990 - John Fulton, BA English, Author
4. 1990 - Hunt Holman, BA Dramatic Art, Playwright
5. 1992 - Annee Hartzell, BA Politics, Teacher of the Blind and Visually Impaired
6. 1998 - Shane Johnson, BA Theater, Actor
7. 2006 - Miguel A. Bravo, BA Economics, Mexican-American/ Chicano Poet.

Revmachine21 15:00, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to remove any alumni that aren't notable, where notability is defined as "having a Wikipedia article in their name". That is in keeping with the spirit of Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Lists_of_people. Tedder (talk) 00:35, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I am removing Paul Hemp from Notable Alum. Deckerla (talk) 18:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Able to lock only one section?

Pretty much all the vandalism is to the notable alumni section. Is there any way to lock just that part from anonymous edits but leave the rest of the article open? Finnegar 19:14, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Peace Corps

Per [1], Whitman is not in the top 10 small colleges for Peace Corps volunteers this year. Willpie (talk) 21:10, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

overseers and alumni board

The college leadership section seems too long and adds little. I understand having all of the presidents included, and maybe the board of trustees. But, having all of the overseers and alumni board members is not very relevant, since they play a more secondary role in college leadership and because there are so many of them. Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Christopher isherwood (talk • contribs) 09:09, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree- it's a long list of mostly non-notable people. I'll probably clean it out soon if nobody else does. Tedder (talk) 00:28, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

refimprove

I added the refimprove flag; this article has MANY statements that should have a local ref and don't. Tedder (talk) 00:36, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Image for Soaring Stones?

I created the article Soaring Stones and hope someone may be willing to add an image to the article. If there is a page watcher who is close to the campus and willing to help, your assistance would be much appreciated! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 15:32, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

I'm a student so once there isn't any snow I'll try to get a picture — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.89.175.247 (talk) 06:39, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Page needs to note Whitman's observatory

The observatory, with the 16 in Newtonian 9 miles N of campus, needs a listing. 24.7.30.91 (talk) 00:12, 24 August 2017 (UTC)