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Happy editing! Erp (talk) 05:53, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

IP editor, I don't know how much experience you have of editing Wikipedia, but I think that the information on content policies in the tutorial linked above is relevant to the discussion we are having. Help:Introduction to policies and guidelines says:

"Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, and the community constantly strives for accuracy. Articles should be neutral and should contain only verifiable information and opinions that already exist in reliable sources.

Neutral point-of-view (or NPOV) means that content is written objectively and without bias, merely presenting the facts and notable viewpoints of others. A general-purpose encyclopedia ought not contain articles that favor particular viewpoints. Striving for a neutral point-of-view helps prevent articles from becoming advertisements or propaganda.

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Verifiability means that articles should contain only material that has been published by reliable sources, such as reputable newspapers and scholarly journals. All content should ideally be supported by a citation, but content that is controversial or likely to be challenged will definitely require one! Unsourced material may be removed at any time, and it is the obligation of the editor adding material to provide a reliable source.

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TSventon (talk) 07:02, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Information not supported by a reference

Hi, I noticed that you added a note to the History of Horsham article here saying "More likely a reference to Horsens in Jutland, the origin of its Jutish settlers. The hors-}} prefix is fairly common in England." Do you have a source for this information? All information on Wikipedia should be Wikipedia:Verifiable, i.e. supported by reliable sources. I tried an online search for Horsham Horsens and didn't find anything relevant. TSventon (talk) 08:08, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for adding a reference to The Angles, Saxons and Jutes (Odijk, Pamela, 1989). What does that book say and on what page? I can't find any mention of Horsham or Horsens in the copy at archive.org. TSventon (talk) 18:59, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

sorry; this was intended for a different entry, not the one related to Horsens 2603:6010:DE3D:3FF6:5476:8A0C:8792:7BC1 (talk) 19:28, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

You would need to collate various sources regarding the Goths, the Geats, the Jutes and the Ingaevones ("Angles"). Ancient sources make a distinction between the first three while acknowledging their relation; in general they had an eastern germanic component rather than a western one (i.e. the Angles). Over time of course these groups all intermingled, but they were still distinct in the Migration age. The Goths were generally regarded as a mainland group (Poland and southward, though its clear they were in Sweden as well - Gotland, Ostergotland, Vestergotland). The Geats, which were documented in Vestergotland (and were probably Goths admixed with Halland tribes). And Jutes, which were Gutones admixed with Gallic Cimbri,

Some places for you to start:

Stuhmiller, Jacqueline (1999). "On the Identity of the "Eotenas"". Neuphilologische Mitteilungen. Modern Language Society. 100 (1): 7–14. JSTOR 43315276.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Origin_of_the_Anglo-Saxon_Race.djvu/273

https://kentarchaeology.org.uk/arch-cant/vol/69/jutish-cemetery-lyminge

https://oldenglishpoetry.camden.rutgers.edu/widsith/ 2603:6010:DE3D:3FF6:5476:8A0C:8792:7BC1 (talk) 22:01, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Do you have a source for "More likely a reference to Horsens in Jutland, the origin of its Jutish settlers."? I am also curious about a sentence to the Anglo-Saxon settlement of Britain article here "The earliest wave of Germanic settlers - East Germanic Visigoths and Goths and North Germanic Geats and Jutes are often conflated with Anglo-Saxons though their settlement occurred earlier (from 418-507 AD) and they were neither Angles nor Saxons." Do you have a source for that? I tried an online search for Visigoths in England and only found a report about a brooch. 19:46, 31 May 2022 (UTC)TSventon (talk)

You might want to check out the essay WP:SYNTHNOT since, for Godalming, you seem to be bringing together several items only one of which mentions Godalming in order to give a origin of the name. Admittedly the current etymology in the article isn't well documented either; I'm going to see if I can track down a proper reference for it. Note this doesn't mean you are wrong, just that you don't have a proper source for the information yet and it contradicts info already in the article.--Erp (talk) 00:14, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Etymology is the study of the origin of words. There aren't really any sources for the names of towns that far back in history. But there is a specific source for the assertion that Godalming was named after Goths is:

Origin of the Anglo-Saxon race: A Study of the Settlement of England and the Tribal Origins of the English People, p. 259. Shore, Thomas William. London: Elliott, Stock & Patterson Row, E.C. (1906). 2603:6010:DE3D:3FF6:5476:8A0C:8792:7BC1 (talk) 00:49, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

IP editor 1. do you have sources for "The earliest wave of Germanic settlers - East Germanic Visigoths and Goths and North Germanic Geats and Jutes are often conflated with Anglo-Saxons though their settlement occurred earlier (from 418-507 AD) and they were neither Angles nor Saxons." 2. Where do you find Visigoths in Britain or specific dates like 418-507 AD? Wikipedua prefers modern scholarship as Wikipedia:Reliable sources to older scholarship or ancient documents.

I checked the sources you suggested and didn't find anything helpful.

3. Stuhmiller, Jacqueline (1999). "On the Identity of the "Eotenas"" is a discussion of "Eotenas" in Beowulf, not Goths in Britain.

4. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Origin_of_the_Anglo-Saxon_Race.djvu/273 by Thomas William Shore was published in 1906, so it is not up to date scholarship

5. https://kentarchaeology.org.uk/arch-cant/vol/69/jutish-cemetery-lyminge is a 1955 archaeological report, which does not mention Goths

6. https://oldenglishpoetry.camden.rutgers.edu/widsith/ is an Anglo Saxon poem, which mentions Goths but not Britain. TSventon (talk) 07:40, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for the response. I'll number these answers for convenience sake:

1. I will add the source for the "The earliest wave of Germanic settlers..." It may not be till this weekend.

2. Visigoths in Britain or specific dates like 418-507 AD? Visigoths in Britain comes from a Byzantine diplomat of the 6th century. I have been attempting to re-locate the source. 418-507 AD is the date of the establishment and overthrow of the kingdom of Toulouse. The Goths held the coast of Gaul across the Channel till the Franks.

3. Discussion of "Eotenas" in Beowulf, not Goths in Britain. Eoteas are Jutes, I believe, not Goths. Beowulf was written in Old English, the language of the Angles and the Saxons. Its relevance is to the etymology.

4. Re Shore, Einstein was published in 1900 and is not up to date scholarship, but he is still cited as authority. Shore's work has never been discredited and is still cited as authority. His credentials are stronger than any of the other sources cited.

5. Kent archaeological report concerns Jutes, not Goths. Goths controlled the waterways to Britain 9southern route) at the relevant time.

6. Same as #3. 2603:6010:DE3D:3FF6:5476:8A0C:8792:7BC1 (talk) 18:34, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, I have numbered my questions and will wait for your response to 1. before replying, as that may clarify some of your other points. TSventon (talk) 15:49, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

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