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WikiProject Films June 2008 Newsletter

The June 2008 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 23:50, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Did you know?

On 13 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Toshio Masuda, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Ryan Postlethwaite 23:22, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Fires on the Plain

I added a comment on your comments to the pper review, but it's too long to discuss in here. Yojimbo501 (talk) 04:22, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Films July 2008 Newsletter

The July 2008 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 02:05, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Films roll call and coordinator elections

Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 03:55, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Films August 2008 Newsletter

The August 2008 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 23:46, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Films coordinator elections - voting now open!

Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 21:36, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

poster image

Hello, I think that the image Image:Red Quay poster.jpg from 1858 will be public domain in 1st January 2009. And similar Japanese posters from 1959 will be public domain in 1st January 2010. --Snek01 (talk) 22:50, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

CfD nomination of Category:B-movie directors

Category:B-movie directors, which you edited, has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Cgingold (talk) 06:34, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

WP:FILMS Questionnaire

As a member of WikiProject Films, you are invited to take part in the project's first questionnaire. It is intended to gauge your participation and views on the project. At the conclusion of the questionnaire, the project's coordinators will use the gathered feedback to find new ways to improve the project and reach out to potential members. The results of the questionnaire will be published in next month's newsletter. If you know of any editors who have edited film articles in the past, please invite them to take part in the questionnaire. Please stop by and take a few minutes to answer the questions so that we can continue to improve our project. Happy editing!
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 03:16, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

editors help

Hello I run asianmediawiki, the site last year was placed on the meta's blacklist for inappropriate links. I believe out website would be of help to wikipedia and have had users ask about the blacklist. I have requested the blacklist to remove but mike and beetstra asked me to first ask a long standing editor in that realm to request it first. May I ask you to place such a request? Please have a look at asianmediawiki's content if you are not already familiar with it. Thank you .. --RamenLover (talk) 22:40, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Celine and Julie Go Boating poster.jpg)

Thanks for uploading File:Celine and Julie Go Boating poster.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:09, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Ran

Since you have worked on Ran, I am obligated to inform you that I have nominated Ran for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. Andrzejbanas (talk) 22:17, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Fires on the Plain DVD.jpg)

Thanks for uploading File:Fires on the Plain DVD.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:11, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence poster.jpg)

Thanks for uploading File:Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence poster.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:06, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK for The Warped Ones

On June 6, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article The Warped Ones, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Giants27 21:49, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Canvassing (Parks and Recreation)

I responded to your comments on the GAN. Thank you! — Hunter Kahn _(c) 00:57, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

• "Thanks! — Hunter Kahn _(c) 14:09, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Alternative text for images in film articles

Hello, since the guidelines to add alternative text for images are being proliferated, I would like to ensure that the Good and Featured Articles under WikiProject Films have such text. Since you are a primary contributor to the article listed below, I ask you to review the guidelines to add text to images in the body. For the image in the infobox, please add alt= above caption= and include alternative text in this field. For an example, see the text for Fight Club (film): alt. Here is your article and a tool assessing it for alternative text:

• Branded to Kill alt

If you have any questions or would like a hand collaborating on alternative text, please let me know! —Erik (talk • contrib) 19:05, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

On it. Or will be within the next week or so. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 22:38, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

The Warped Ones

Hi, Doctor Sunshine. I was looking around for a little info on what I took to be an obscure early pink film realsed in the US as The Weird Lovemakers, and I noticed we already had an excellent article on it: The Warped Ones. Great work! There are a couple paragraphs on the film in:

• Macias, Patrick (2001). TokyoScope: The Japanese Cult Film Companion. San Francisco: Cadence Books. ISBN 1-56931-681-3.

I couldn't find much in it to add to the article. But I've got the text and could send it to you tonight if you want. You may be able to squeeze something useful out of it. Cheers! Dekkappai (talk) 16:59, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Hey, thanks. Yeah, I really had to dig around to get as much information as I did. That'd be great if you wouldn't mind sending that over, I guess either here or I'll enable my email link over in the left-hand bar. I'm sure I would have checked that one out before now but my library kind of sucks and I've tried to be moderate in my book purchases. Incidentally, I just, more or less, finished working on Suzuki's art director's filmography. He left Nikkatsu shortly after they got into Roman Porno but then he went back and did a couple pink films with them in 1983. I thought of you when I saw that. :) You're omnipresent in pink. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 20:29, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Sure, I'll post it here tonight-- it's just a couple paragraphs, and you can delete it after I post it, if copyright concerns are a problem. I noticed that filmography, and like the format you use. I'm going to try to adopt it later on, if I can figure out the code. The only thing I think I'll do different is put the titles (English/Japanese/romanized) on top of each other in one column, so as not to take up the majority of screen width. About Kimura's Roman pornos-- I'm pretty sure I have a poster of Rope and Breasts (though I think it was filmed more than once-- I'm pretty sure it's an Oniroku Dan title, though he and director Konuma didn't get along well) , so I could probably start up a stub on it fairly easily. The title Kiyoshi Yamashita: Wandering Artist rings a bell too-- I read an article on it just recently, I think... about an artist who pretended to be insane to avoid the draft during the war?... I think they translated it as "Naked General?" though... Dekkappai (talk) 21:02, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Cool, sounds good. No rush on those articles—I didn't mean to put you on the spot, of course—I'm just impressed there's already a substantial article on Masaru Konuma. But I'll chip in if you put anything up with whatever Kinema Junpo and JMDb can afford me. Kiyoshi Yamashita actually was somewhat brain damaged, apparently. I got the English title from an obituary and, I think, a film festival pdf or something (it's all a haze now and I'll probably need glasses after straining to figure out all the kanji and hiragana.) There was a television show at the same time that used his nickname in the title, according to the Asianmediawiki. One thing I have to warn you about with that filmography format, with the white and grey bars, if you miss a film and add it in later, it can be a little tedious alternating the colours again. I was actually going to try and code a new template to do it automatically but anything I made would have wound up more time complex and time-consuming than a simple table. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 21:38, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh, you won't have to twist my arm to start an article on Rope and Breasts, I assure you... and what madman would have started an article on Masaru Konuma do you suppose? :) I actually saw that one quoted at length, unattributed, in a biography of the director on the Wife to be Sacrificed DVD. Dekkappai (talk) 22:17, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

You didn't waste any time. Nice work! Hah, I almost know how you feel on Konuma. Some music website lifted the Branded to Kill tracklist translation without attribution but I think the CD manufacturer actually lifted the titles from the Criterion Collection DVD's chapter stops, they're so similar. Not a big deal but I did get a subtle revenge in that I'd made a mistake in translating serifu nashi as "sans serif" instead of "no dialogue" which wasn't corrected here until later—a very subtle revenge. In your case, it's nice to see people reading and benefiting from you work but it'd be nicer to get paid, or at least some acknowledgment. At least Scorsese paid you your due, huh? I saw the Kim Ki-young bio with The Housemaid at The Auteurs website and I know you worked on that. Can't wait for Criterion to release that on DVD—great movie, and I'm a big Criterion freak. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 02:09, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm always game for spreading a little of the joy of perversity around Wikipedia. ;) Yeah, Marty gave me my Wiki-bucks for the Kim Ki-young article. Promised me Joe Pesci's character's name in his next film will be the Italian for "Dekkappai"--- "Abbondanza", "Mama mia!" or something... Glad to see you enjoyed Housemaid too-- I hope they put out more Kim Ki-young films, he really sounds like an interesting character. If you're interested in more Korean films of that era, Obaltan is out on DVD. Another excellent film, but the DVD is bare-bones, the subtitles are burned in, and the film is in pretty bad shape... and it's pricey. Quite an interesting film anyway. Here's the text on the movie: I've just pasted it without formatting, you can go into edit mode and cut it out. Hope it's useful! Dekkappai (talk) 03:50, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

That's the only kind of joy to spread. I think I can use that excerpt. Thanks again. I'd heard of Obaltan but I didn't realize it was out on DVD now. I remember reading "best Korean film ever"? I like supporting these kind of releases but burned in subtitles are a sin. There are a couple cinephile-type video stores around here so I'll see if I can't track it down. By the way, if you need any help with the filmography tables, let me know. All of the parameters are up top so it's just a matter of cut and paste, then tweaking it however you want it. After that you just have to punch in the colours after the dashes beginning each row. I don't have time today but I'll do up an example later if that'd help. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 22:08, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

No problem. I probably won't get around to experimenting the the filmography format until Monday at the earliest. At first glance, I think I can figure it out. (That's no guarantee though :) Cinema Epoch released Obaltan-- they're the same company that put out a couple of early gems of the pink cinema: Slave Widow and The Bite. I recommend those those two without reservation, because, apparently, these films were not preserved in Japan, and the dubbed (Bite) and burned-in subtitle (Slave Widow) versions are all we're ever likely to see. Obaltan is a great movie and gives a fascinating look at Korea of the time, but I wouldn't be surprised if a decent (non-subtitled) copy exists in Korea. And it should be at the head of the queue for restoration, I would think. So a better copy might come out eventually. Dekkappai (talk) 22:58, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Et voilà! I'm not happy with the footnote placement, but can never figure out a good place to put that for a filmography... I even took the liberty of making a couple of screw-ups during the change-over, and it still worked out fine... The problem you mention about adding new films shouldn't be too difficult, judging from this experience. Just cut & paste all the films below the new one into notepad, replace one of the color parameters with a "Dummy". Replace the other with the other color, then replace the "dummy" with the right one... if that makes sense. Anyway, I think the filmography looks much better. Thanks! Dekkappai (talk) 18:58, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Looks good! I find without the outlines of the standard table it looks a lot cleaner and less busy, which especially helps with all the kanji probably looking like random noise to most people. I'd just put the notes above the biography, that seems to be the standard. Also, I'd forgotten that notepad had the replace function. I was just highlighting and dragging the colour parameter. I was too lazy to look around for something to do it automatically and I figured doing it manually was still going to be less painful than general filmography work.

Thanks for the film recommendations, I was going to ask actually. I've only seen a handful of pink films thus far and , to be honest, they didn't impress me that much, though, to be fair, they were all Norifumi Suzukis. I think I saw Sex and Fury and one of the Sukeban films which were fun but I can't say they really stuck in the mind. School of the Holy Beast gets some points though, it's hard to beat nunsplotation in terms of outrageous genres. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 20:58, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, one reservation: Recommended if you enjoy pink. I enjoyed Slave Widow more than The Bite. Have you seen the Scorpion films (Female Convict 701: Scorpion, Female Convict Scorpion: Jailhouse 41, Female Prisoner Scorpion: Beast Stable, Female Convict Scorpion: Grudge Song)? They're fun if you enjoy "Pinky violence". One of them starts out with a cop handcuffing himself to Meiko Kaji in a subway. She hacks his arm off with a knife, then goes running with his severed arm flopping behind her, through a downtown Tokyo crowd filled with shocked bystanders as the credits roll... Hard to beat '70s Toei for that kind of artistic vision :) Dekkappai (talk) 21:22, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Hah, yeah, I've only heard good things about Female Prision Scorpion but it's been one of those things where I've been meaning to get around to them for years. Actually, I only saw my first Meiko Kaji films a month or two back with the Wandering Ginza Butterfly movies. Probably not the best two to start with but they were still good fun. Right now I'm most excited about the Nikkatsu Noir set coming out this month but it's been good all over for esoteric Japanese releases. Here's hoping they get the rest of the Stray Cat Rock series out soon too! A man can't subsist on Kurosawa and Ozu alone. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 01:12, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Right. Ozu's probably my favorite director, bar none-- I've got both his Eclipse boxes. And you can't go wrong with Kurosawa (or Mizoguchi, or Imamura), of course. But you'll have to take my exploitation cinema from my cold, dead hands! (Don't tell anyone about my fondness for Ozu, I've got a reputation to uphold ;) Actually, I got into the trash cinema figuring that mainstream cinema was already well-covered. But I'm surprised how poor the articles on the big names are... There are no articles on the Zatoichi, Tora-san or Abashiri Bangaichi films (I just started one of those)... And even the Godzilla articles are in atrocious shape-- unsourced fan-based writing... I think about digging into these areas sometimes, but my choice of username might be inappropriate for more high-profile Japanese cinema articles :) Dekkappai (talk) 04:06, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Your secret's safe with me. I always rank Branded to Kill as my favourite but maintain Seven Samurai is the best film I've seen. I tend to shy away from mainstream stuff too and I'd consider Kurosawa mainstream, in film geek circles anyway, but I'm still an unabashed fanboy. And ditto on the other greats you mentioned. I've mainly kept to Suzuki and Nikktsu type films on Wikipedia for the same reasons. I've been tempted to try my hand at some English language stuff, Jarmusch is calling my name, but someone will probably give him some love eventually where Nikkatsu's best chance is weirdos like us. I'd like to give some bigger topics like Zatoichi and Seven Samurai a go but they can be intimidating. Suzuki's been active since the 50s but no one outside of Japan knew anything or wrote about him until the mid 80s and, even then, he's a cult figure. People have been writing volumes about Kurosawa for more than half a decade. My library is insufficient. And then there's editor disputes, sometimes they're a hassle but, actually, I might be going soft without anyone contesting anything I've written on Suzuki. Maybe I oughta throw down on some Naruse or The Yakuza Papers! You could toss on a raincoat and do some covert Godzilla editing. :) But I'm not in any rush and I'm happy chiseling away at my niche. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 07:42, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes... the nice, soft, warm, comfortable valley into which I've nestled does offer the advantage of working (mostly) alone... Except for the occasional nutcase on a crusade... The one really mainstream article I worked on (Anna May Wong), turned out to be a positive experience-- I've got that one FA star now... But working with "consensus" did try my patience a lot more than, say, Tetsuji Takechi ever did... (The word "consensus" used here always brings to my mind an image of a mob with pitchforks and torches...) Yakuza Papers might stir up some "consensus", but I'd think Naruse would be pretty safe, and he's got a bit written on him in English. Dekkappai (talk) 13:27, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, FAs aren't nearly as bad as some people make them out to be. Actually, the hardest part about pushing Branded to Kill through was getting enough people to review it. Even if its audience isn't huge most cineastes have at least heard of it. Still, I ended up posting a notice at WikiProject Films to get the last couple yays to meet the minimum. Y'know... you might have an easier time with some of your pink articles. Say what you will about breasts, but they do get peoples attention. I remember my first dispute here was on a Kurosawa article but, I don't know, I doubt there'd even be that many disputes on the Kurosawa-Ozu-Mizoguchi triumvirate. If anyone cared that much they'd have better articles by now. And I'm fortunate in that I'm always right. :)

You've actually had people rail against your articles? One would think they'd have all moved over to Conservipedia where, of course, they realize that this bawdy stuff doesn't belong on the Internet but in the privacy of their own homes, high class brothels, airport men's rooms and Argentinian mistress's places. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 20:54, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd love to see Big Tit Sisters: Blow Through the Valley or Miss Peach: Peachy Sweetness Huge Breasts on the mainpage... Cooking up an "Alt" description of the poster images alone would make it worth it :) (By the way-- you left out the phrase "man with chipmunk cheeks" on both of the Branded to Kill images!) I haven't had anyone go after my articles specifically, just had collateral trouble from the Carrie Nation-types who periodically swoop on anything of a prurient nature here... always chanting the battle-cry of "notability", of course ;) Dekkappai (talk) 23:47, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

As great as those titles are, if you're going to get anything on the main page please let it be Keep on Masturbating: Non-Stop Pleasure. Guaranteed news headlines right there. You should seriously consider getting a pink director or actress to FA though. Featured lists look relatively easy to do too. On Joe, I was thinking about it but, you're right, it's wrong of me not to (y'know, politely) mention Shishido's cheeks. And if anyone ever came after one of my articles I would love it to be a six foot matron with a hatchet. That would be worth it.

By the by, I hated doing it but I took out the bit you added about the The Warped Ones's trailer but added a link to the trailer. Usually they put the trailers on any number of releases and it would be hell find and list them all, especially when it's also available on their website. On the plus side, I finally integrated that TokyoScope excerpt which worked pretty good, if I do say so myself. Muchas gracias! Doctor Sunshine (talk) 04:47, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Glad you could use it! No problem about the trailer-- Sure, I wouldn't go around putting DVDs including trailers on every run-of-the-mill film that comes out. But this was an unusual case-- a fairly obscure, early '60s US release of a fairly obscure early '60s Japanese film. But your link to the trailer online does the job too. Carry? I'll send her to one of your articles next time she comes a-choppin' :) Dekkappai (talk) 13:32, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Cool. A funny thing about the trailer, I'm pretty sure that the shots of the woman undressing were shot and edited into the trailer by Radley Metzger (I'm not positive, I haven't actually seen the film) but it sounds like he did that sort of thing a lot. And see that you do send Carry—I'll be ready. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 23:46, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Review!

What's up Doc Sunshine? I've started my review for The Warped Ones and it should be ready for GA soon if some issues are addressed. Good luck! Andrzejbanas (talk) 18:08, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Takeo Kimura

On August 14, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Takeo Kimura, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Orlady (talk) 20:15, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks!

Hey-- thanks for that barnstar! Otis would have finished the task much earlier, but I've set myself the goal of starting work on at least one Roman porno a day for a while. So I've been sapping Otis' precious bodily fluids :) Hey-- maybe you can repay the favor by working through the List of Nikkatsu Roman Porno films when I put it up for Good list. (Don't worry, that's not likely now that I've seen what work it is to get the comparatively puny Kimura filmography the seal of approval :) Dekkappai (talk) 03:12, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

That is ambitious, I don't think I've written anything in weeks. I'm afraid you may have to bite the bullet on FLC. GA doesn't take lists, I've seen them turned away before. That is an intimidating list but I'd be happy to check it out as long as you don't mind me dragging my feet—and don't think I'd go easy on you either. :) You might want to try it anyway, it looks painful but... well it was painful. But the mind has a very short memory for pain. And the only part that really killed me was begging four WikiProjects for reviews—three out of four to deafening silence. Argh. You were a life saver. I can't believe that list is even possible. It's every Roman Porno ever made? You've got to have the only complete list of genre films on Wikipedia. Have you considered contacting Guinness? Doctor Sunshine (talk) 14:15, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

No-- I'm just kidding about putting such a huge list through the review. Partly, as you surmise, just finishing it and determining if it is complete is going to take forever. I read somewhere Nikkatsu made over 1,100 over 17 years. I haven't counted my list, but I'm sure it's not that... (Starting work on one article a day is wacky enough. Let's see if I can last 3 1/2 years and finish the entire series :) I was brave/crazy enough to do all I could to make the list at Japanese Wiki as complete as I could, and after I'd finished, I see that several Japanese editors jumped in and patched things up. (For one thing, not everything Nikkatsu made during those 17 years was a Roman Porno-- but about 99% was.) I have yet to compare the English one against that improved Japanese one. (Someone-- Oprah Winfrey maybe?-- said if you can't find the book you want to read, then write it. And that list of Nikkatsu Roman Pornos was just that-- Before I started it I'd never seen anything that attempted to list them all in English or Japanese.) Oh... and this Kimura filmography is a Featured list review, not a Good list? Then I'd better go vote! Because Featured reviews are one of those places we have to vote at, right? Without calling it voting? ;) Dekkappai (talk) 15:10, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Jeez, I did think you were serious. :) Well, that'll save me about a month of checking. When I first saw that list I considered one for maybe Nikkatsu Action but, if I have my numbers right, they were putting out 50 films a year from 1955 through 1970, even when television came on the scene they compensated with double and triple features. Not all of them were Nikkatsu Action either but I'd never hack it. You're brave and crazy both. Voting? I'm not familiar with this "voting" you speak of. Is that the one they're letting women participate in now, where everyone is considered equally? Your quaint words confound me, sir! But, yeah, it looks like it has a legitimate chance of passing now. Can't thank you enough. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 15:19, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

You know, a Nikkatsu action list wouldn't be a bad idea, I think... It wouldn't have to start out complete, of course-- at least if the Deletionists can be kept at bay :( I might even throw on a raincoat and help with that one... I looked at the Roman Porno list just as a list for list's sake at first. But now it's looking like checklist for article-creation. Aesthetic considerations aside (take a look at the three articles I started yesterday Lady Moonflower, Fascination: Portrait of a Lady, and Cruelty: Black Rose Torture... hoo boy... the immortal Naomi Tani... a reminder of why I got into this line of editing in the first place ;-) at least 5 of those films are on that "Best Japanese films of the 20th century" list, and many made the Kinema Junpo best lists for their year. All of them should pass "notability" just for being made by a major studio, and, usually, having notable personnel involved... And then after blue-linking a couple dozen or so films, a stand-alone Roman Porno article, broken off from pink film may be the next step... I see no reason why Nikkatsu action couldn't follow the same pattern-- list article to film articles to genre article. Do you have the new book on the genre? That would be a big help, I assume-- I don't have it. Oh, by the way, look for an article soon on the film Love Hunter. It's one of the early Roman pornos, and wound up as a legality-test for the series when the Tokyo Police arrested the director and confiscated copies of the film. Interestingly, some members of Eirin were also arrested, for passing the film!-- this was in 1972. The director was Seiichirō Yamaguchi, one of the Hachiro Guryu who helped write Branded to Kill. Dekkappai (talk) 16:38, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

That's true, might not be so bad if I just did it on the side and copied stuff over from any articles or filmographies I might be working on. There's a bunch of stuff I want to do first but I intend to do up a Nikkatsu Action article at some point, then I could start a list. I find lists and categories have more staying power with a "main article" link. Speaking of, I should have done it years ago but a Category:Nikkatsu films is in order. All of the major American studios have categories, not to mention Toho. Those articles are looking good and, yes, she does too—a fetching lass to be sure. I can't imagine you'll have any trouble with notability... did I just jinx you? But, no, with the major studio, stars and RS coverage you're on extremely solid ground. And Thomas Weisser's a great resource. I actually found a copy of the Asian Cult Cinema magazine with an extensive Suzuki interview on eBay. It's easily the best Suzuki interview I've seen. Weisser only contributed questions to the interview but he also did a complete annotated filmography which is a tremendous resource. I do have the No Borders, No Limits book. It's small but a good primer and a Nikkatsu Action article would not be easy without it. Looking forward to Love Hunter, I was going to recommend you DYK some of these but I've noticed you're already starting to stack those up. Always good to see this esoteric sort of stuff garner some eyes. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 05:20, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that category was so obvious it nearly bit me on the arse-- I had been thinking about a "Nikkatsu Roman Porno" category as a sub-category of "Pink films", but the more obvious studio category eluded me. Branded To Kill has now been joined by the raincoat brigade ;) I did the same for Toei, though I've just added their pinky violence films-- I'm sure there are dozens of non-aligned films to both studios floating around Wikipedia... Glad to hear Weisser get some praise. His (and his wife's) Japanese film encyclopedia, the sex films, is invaluable for these articles. I see he gets a lot of disrespect around the Internet because of mistakes in the book, but there seems to be more a personal bias to these complaints-- like they were instigated by a disgruntled ex-employee, or a Japanese film buff-writer rival. When Weisser put that book out, in 1998, there was, basically, nothing on the genre in English. And here he comes out with this tome covering thousands of films in a genre totally unknown to most English-speakers, and not previously covered in the language... bound to be some mistakes creep in, and, to be sure, they are there. But overall it's an amazing first work on the genre... Dekkappai (talk) 16:29, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

You do work fast. I'll do my part in populating at least that category soonish. And there are quite a few of them floating around, I guess soon we'll find out exactly how many. I wouldn't be surprised if that was someone with a grudge against Weisser, I understand some authors can get as stuffy and petty as professors—I don't know why I just took a shot at professors... Every author makes mistakes, Schilling, of the Nikkatsu Action book, certainly has and even top dog Donald Richie has fudged a point or two. Tatami mat shots come to mind. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 04:41, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Right. Which is one of the reasons I think it is so wrong that editors have set themselves up as authorities to judge what is "reliable" and what is not. Especially when it comes to these more obscure films, I've seen IMDb be correct where the AFI Film Catalogue is wrong... Right now, Boobpedia has correct info on some Russ Meyer films, while Wikipedia-- thanks to its devotion to the self-proclaimed more "reliable" sources-- is wrong ;) And then we we set ourselves up as judges of "notability", and justify it by getting a couple other anonymous editors to agree, and call it "consensus"... Well, I'm beginning to think Jimbo should swoop down, wipe out the entire bureaucracy, guidelines, admins and all, set up simple, objective rules in their place, insist that editors work on adding and improving content, period, and ban anyone who tries to inhibit that. But I digress... and dream... Dekkappai (talk) 13:31, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Have you ever tried to argue with Jimbo though? He sweeps in and sweeps out, leaving only a sentence or two and an army of yes men in his wake. No system's perfect but at least against other editors you stand a chance. And judging by those U.S. town hall meetings, people aren't getting any smarter or more reasonable so you might as well get used to it. :) I've been avoiding the bureaucratic side of things here as of late but once in a while I'll get sucked back in. I don't know. Maybe it'd be easier to join the rabble. You get to shout at people, you'd save tons of time not having to think anything through and they'll still put you on Fox News and call you a hero. Doesn't sound so bad... Doctor Sunshine (talk) 17:54, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

No, never tried communicating with Jimbo. Considering the huge crop of weeds he's allowed to take over his garden (the "weed" analogy referring to the Orwellian bureaucracy), I'd think it would be time ill-spent. Yeah, don't get me started on the damned human race. My faith in democracy was shaken to its core sometime around November '04, and when I hear "consensus" I always picture torches and pitchforks... I find my feelings towards Wikipedia reach their lowest whenever I step into policy discussions, so I try to stick to the articles. That's where the fun and the challenge is, and that's why we all came here in the first place. Nicht wahr? Dekkappai (talk) 18:27, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

There was some discussion as to whether fair use images should be allowed on the main page, I was on the yay side as TFA film articles were going to get pooched but then Jimbo swooped in, said "no" and the yays just evaporated and the nays had it. Nothing could be done to get the conversation restarted. That was not long before my year or two hiatus—not the sole reason by any means but it did help. Generally, I like keeping my debating skills sharp but, weirdly, the smaller the issue the more vehement and unyielding the debate. Definitely, writing articles should be the foremost reason everyone's here. Think that'll ever happen? :) Doctor Sunshine (talk) 19:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah-- I got burned bad when they outlawed fair-use images of living people. I've met a few who have fair-use of film posters in their cross-hairs... If you are familiar with that old gem of a Japanese-U.S. collaboration, The Manster, I look at the article-writers as Peter Dyneley, and the rule-writer/wiki-cop/deletionist-types as that hideous thing that grows out of his shoulder, eventually forms into a second head, and then takes over his life. (Who needs Nazi similes when you've got B-movies :) Dekkappai (talk) 06:50, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Here's another one: So, I found some "free" (does fair-use cost anything?) images of Toshio Masuda and Joe Shishido on an Italian website, got an okay from the site's owner through email and put them up; but when I was on hiatus someone deleted the Masuda image because the site appeared to say "no commercial use". That's fine but when I send the email correspondences to OTRS they tell me it's no good because releasing the images under a no copyright notice and agreeing to allow commercial use isn't enough—I have to get them to type their name over some underscores and after a little X on a free content form.

Are we just re-frustrating ourselves here or is this cathartic? On your thing though, I don't want to set you up for another fall but you might consider fair use images for actresses who've, say, been retired more than 10 years. That's just an arbitrary number but in the erotic cinema field they play on their looks more than Hollywood stars for whom, I'd argue, screen presence, a distinctive voice and a large-sized head are their main assets. Take a look at what WiseKwai did with Sombat Metanee. Even if you got a free image of a retired actress, or maybe just one well into her career, it's not going to be able to illustrate how and why she's known. Again, I suggest this only at your own discretion but maybe it's something to think about.

I had not heard of The Manster before but has to've been an impetus for How to Get Ahead in Advertising. But you're right: screw them, I'm watching Equinox! Doctor Sunshine (talk) 04:30, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, but nah, I'm pretty burned on images. I've seen images of Buster Keaton/Charlie Chaplin film posters from before 1923 (i.e. they are public domain) deleted because the friggin' image description wasn't done right. Or was done right at the time of the original upload, but the format had since been changed, and the deletionist's time to too precious to bother fixing, rather than deleting things... I tried reading through the "Free image" rigamarole once, and just gave up. Dead people and film posters are my limit, image-wise... Hey, believe it or not, I saw Equinox in a theatrical double-bill with Godzilla vs. the Smog Monster in 1972. My devotion to cinematic schlock goes waaay back :) I'm going to have to take a look at Manster again. After ruining his marriage and his life, the second head eventually breaks off from Dyneley. They have a battle near a volcano, into which the evil twin falls to its death. Put my Wikipedia inclusionist/deletionist analogy into the scenario, and it's cathartic as hell :) Dekkappai (talk) 05:10, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

OK, I gave Manster a look last night. I guess memory exaggerated the deletionist/inclusionist conflict motif... But it's there I tell you! ;) Maybe we should look at Dyneley as Wikipedia proper, and the serum injection given him by mad scientist Suzuki as the "Deletionist" experiment, which grows out of control and runs amok... Dekkappai (talk) 14:35, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't blame you on the image front. And, no, I think your analogy stands. The impulse to create, if he's a reporter that's only a step away from an editor, versus the impulse to destroy, aka delete. And as far as getting rid of something, I don't think it comes anymore cathartic than by volcano. Maybe shooting it into the sun but then you'd need some sort of gizmo, where with the volcano you can get right in there and really get your hands dirty. Thumbs up on the Love Hunter article, by the way. You gotta love how every time some group goes after something it backfires and just give the film a bigger audience. At any small art house theatre it's always the controversial stuff like Irreversible or Old Boy that draw the biggest crowds. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 03:00, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Section breaking this

Well, my memory played tricks with me about the ending too... The hideous ape-creature (or Deletionist, if you choose to read between the lines) does indeed fall into the volcano, but there is no battle between the two. The ape-creature absconds with the mad scientist's sexy assistant and just falls into the volcano with her. Something like Gollum, but with a babe in his arms rather than a cheesy ring. Check out the front page of Wikipedia quick, and you'll catch Love Hunter there... I was rather more pleased with how well Fairy in a Cage turned out yesterday though... I'd expected it to be just a run-of-the-mill film stub, but managed to turn up quite a bit on it. In fact I'm toying with the idea of putting it up for DYK next... Maybe Naomi Tani's quote about the upside-down torture being real?... Yeah, protests against films always wind up as free advertising... Just wish the Deletionist menace would work that way here too... What's going on with the Featured List deal? Do we just have to wait until an Admin swoops down from heaven and sprinkles pixie dust on it? Dekkappai (talk) 13:32, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, he was at least implicit. If he'd let the horrible ape-creature be it might have noticed the volcano ahead of time. I don't know if you've noticed this but, first, take a look at how my last DYK did in terms of page views.[1] Maybe slightly better than my previous DYKs but fairly indicative. Now take a look at how Love Hunter did.[2] I told you breasts get attention. :) Definitely try another one with Fairy in a Cage, the torture's a good angle. I've been surprised by how quick an article can fill out too with what seems like one or two spinets of information. Everything Goes Wrong, for example, and I didn't think there was enough for the style section on Branded to Kill but it filled out in no time. On featured lists, I think they just need a certain number of supports before they'll pass something. You can probably find the number going through previous nominations but I suspect it's only two or three more. The FLC regulars have been through it, some WP Film stalwarts, now we're just waiting people like me who only review things when they put up a nomination of their own and tend to focus on the stuff that's been there the longest. Kimura's on the "nominations urgently needing reviews" list now and once Desperate Housewives is done I suspect it'll get some more love/pity reviews. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 21:02, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Damn.. four and a half thousand page-views, just shy of the five thousand to go on the DYK statistics page... Let's see if I can work a mention of Naomi Tani's magnificent bazooms into the hook this time, and break all records :) About the upside-down torture scene: Do you think there's enough to justify an image? I've found one I'm not really happy with, but I know I've seen others. It's a pretty in/famous scene. If I could track down a decent one, that would certainly up the interest value, I'd think... Oh, and pay no attention to Otis stirring up trouble at the Feature list review. He's a chronic malcontent, but he'll keep his griping to himself for now. Hope it passes soon :) Dekkappai (talk) 22:18, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Your Everything Goes Wrong and a few of these Roman Porno articles also give evidence to back up one of my theories about AfDs: If someone has interest/knowledge of a subject s/he can put together a pretty substantial article on even some pretty marginal topics. But if you throw out that topic to a group of random editors-- especially those who feel their mission is to delete "non-notable" articles-- they'll find nothing... especially if it's on a subject outside of the recent/Anglosphere... Dekkappai (talk) 22:38, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Every reviewer mentioned the stripper getting shot in the breast with an arrow for Suzuki's Take Aim at the Police Van... maybe I can work that into a DYK somehow... Jealous much? Yes I am. As long as you recap what it is the screenshot is illustrating in the caption I don't think you'll have a problem including it in the article. Personally, I think every film article should have at least one screenshot, it speaks volumes about the style and quality of the film regardless of any other commentary—and I do think your example meets the "critical commentary that couldn't be illustrated by words alone" requirement.

So, wait, what you're saying is that Otis is the ape-creature and you're the foreign correspondent, or...? No, gripe away. I know you're getting a lot of "assume good faith", "wiki-love, brother-man" but, honestly, all this level-headedness can only lead to massive coronaries. I'd rather see people speak their minds directly—short of bringing anyone else's mother into the conversation—than bottling it up and taking it out on their significant other or kid's soccer coach at a later date. We're (mostly? partially?) all grown-ups here. I saw that at the FLC earlier and would have put in my two cents then except that I got hungry and wandered off to get some dinner. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 01:39, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Wait a minute there. You're alleging Otis is a Deletionist? Better be careful not to rile him. He's liable to get over-excited and fall into a volcano... I think every film article should have a poster image, which makes me an ultra-Inclusionist these days. You say a poster and a screen shot? Man, you're waaay out there :) Yeah, "Civility" is overrated in the face of some of the things going on here... I feel like a guy whose house is overrun by hyper neighbor kids with baseball bats, bashing in lamps, windows and my Ozu DVD collection, while their parents tut-tut me to "Assume Good Faith," sip tea, and quietly muse, "My, how energetic these youngsters are..." Bah... Anyway, Otis may have overbound his steps this morning. I'll see if I can rouse him out of his hangover-induced stupor to make some explanations... Dekkappai (talk) 17:16, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Ignorance is bliss, I say. When these kids grow up shame may presumable kick in and they might all chip in and buy you a whole new Ozu set—maybe on bluray! For that Fairy screenshot, I might actually just re-sum-up that the torture was real for authenticity's sake and repeat the reference there. People are much less likely to delete outright when they see a ref. Also, maybe if you have a reference explaining that they used various objects, i.e., the rope, to cover up the naughty bits, that could be included too. Otherwise, good stuff. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 18:57, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Reference at the image description you mean? I've just done that... Or should I put it in the caption at the article too? The "rope to hide the naughty-bits" is true, obviously-- they used flower vases, tables, Tetsuji Takechi even used floating images of shamisen-players-- but I didn't come across a statement that specifically says this rope was used for that purpose. So, to avoid the neighbor kids with the bat labled "SYNTHESIS", I'll leave that out for now... Dekkappai (talk) 19:21, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I mean sort of recap or explain what the image is illustrating in the caption briefly and repeat the reference there, just because readers sometimes jump right to the image and ignore the rest. The image should be fine either way but it's sort of an added guaranty. You're probably right on the censoring bit, I was thinking if there wasn't a specific reference in regards to the film maybe a general one that mentions they all do that but even without the synthesis concerns it'd probably be overkill covering that in every single Roman Porno article when it's already covered in the main one. Doesn't really need it. Anyway, the DYK factoid looks good, here's hoping you break 5k! Doctor Sunshine (talk) 02:38, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Quick, check out what's on the front page! But they fouled up my hook two ways: First, they used my less-readable first version. Second, they changed "Roman Porno" to "Pink film" which is not only inaccurate, it's also going to cut down on a couple thousand clicks. Damn. And I had hopes for this one making the record. Next time I'll have to use a film that has "Tits" right in the title :) Dekkappai (talk) 05:23, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I saw that. Well, it's not too late, drop them a note about the mistakes at WT:DYK and someone'll fix it. And you've got no shortage of great film names to work with. I have the Roman Porno list watchlisted and good ones are always popping up. Kōichirō Uno's Wet and Swinging? I'd click that. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 05:34, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I reported it at Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors. Not sure I did it right. I'm pretty klutzy with these template report deals. And I avoid discussion pages like the plague. You almost sucked me into that "Red link" deal there, but I felt the quicksand giving way beneath my feet and bailed out. Back to tinkering away on my Roman Pornos now. :) Dekkappai (talk) 06:09, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Hrm, looks like it's running out of time. The admins must still be asleep. Still, I'm betting the phrase "thigh muscles" does pretty good among Wikipedia's demographic, which I take to be mostly white, male nerds. :) Prove me wrong, world! I didn't really want to start that discussion either but after a month working on that list and another in FLC, well, I've got enough fight in me for the both of us. Man, do I hope it doesn't drag out though. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 12:11, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it's off the front page now, and I can't find it in the archives-- never know where these things disappear to-- and I see no response to my plea on the error page. Looks like they screwed me over good. Bastards. Me & Naomi will be lucky to break 1,000 this time. (By the way. No, I didn't know about checking the page views before, so thanks.)... But I'm sure there must be a place I can go discuss it ad infinitum. Some sort of a Request for comment page or a guideline talk or something ;) White male nerds? I'll bet that's about 99% of the editor demographic, though I suspect, or hope, that the reader demographic may be just a little more varied. Good luck on the fight... but when I read things there like, "red links mean the list isn't complete" I just throw up my hands and de-watch a discussion... Dekkappai (talk) 14:10, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Ah well, there's always next time. (Watch it break 10 000.) They also added a link to that stat site on the "view history" page for each article. And thanks, yeah, I don't really spend that much time on Wikipedia the days but in the last month or so 99% of it has been on discussion pages. I think you've got the right idea. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 20:42, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Right. The rule-making pages are dominated by those who are just here to make rules. The AfDs are dominated by those who are here to Delete. And the articles-- anyone remember them?-- are the realm of the lowly article-writer, who has to deal with fall-out from the governing classes... I made the mistake of peeking in at the discussion and blew up. Jesus, pompous asses always gripe me... Anyway, the vote's still out on Fairy in a Cage. As a Kurosawa fan, you'll probably enjoy one of Wiki's newest offerings: Naked Seven. I actually had a chance to see that in San Francisco not long after it came out. I wandered off in other pursuits though... My loss... Dekkappai (talk) 04:33, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Hey-- take a look at what one of my old DYK's did: Michiko Maeda[3] I see that over 11,000 in a non-lead DYK makes the hall of fame. I'll have to add her later, once I have time to track down the hook, figure out how to post it, etc... I don't have the heart to look in-- I'll probably blow up again-- but I hope you have pointed out for me that these re-definitions of "minimal", "notable", "consensus", etc. are exactly the kind of thing Goebbels used to do!!! ;-) Dekkappai (talk) 18:12, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Nice work with the DYK. In the discussion, I'm actually working my way up through the hierarchy, I'm on Eva Braun before they got married right now and I've implied that these tactics remind me of that one guy John Cusack played in that one movie about that painter. A subtle touch, I'm using. I liked your polite sign off after your blow up, by the way. :)

Not when it originally came out, but I missed Seven Samurai when it played here a few years back in the last Kurosawa retro, still haven't seen it theatrically. I imagine I might get another chance next year though. Good article you got there. Back when I was figuring out who Hachiro Guryu actually were, I tried finding out a bit more about the individual members and there was nary much to be had. So, it's really cool to see articles popping up on these guys and their films. So your work is appreciated by some at least—and quite a few more when it comes to mentions of nudity, evidently. :) Doctor Sunshine (talk) 21:00, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, you've got more patience with this kind of thing than I do... I'd tell them all to take a flying f***, and then de-link, just to avoid the circular arguments... Thing is, this is all just personal preference-- not right-or-wrong-- and enforcing (or punishing based on) one way or another is against the common good here. Take Nihonjoe's objection to the Caps-lowercase format. He brought it up (it might or might not be his preference, even mentioned it's in the guideline), but acknowledged neither one is really "correct", and voted for the article... Bah, I'd better lay off this discussion before I wind up siccing Blondi on someone. ;)... Yes, Atsushi Yamatoya-- I get the impression he was the major writer on Branded to Kill-- appears to have been quite an interesting character. A Japanese editor recommended him as a subject for an article, as well as his film Dutch Wife of the Wastelands-- something of a cult classic, I gather, though I've never seen it. So much more to be done, and so much time wasted dithering over rules, style, and deletion... Dekkappai (talk) 21:43, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

I know, I think I've said this before but it's these minor debates that get the most fervent and irretractable. I actually argued for Nihonjoe's English caps thing once at WT:NCF but no one seemed that into it so I just plugged along with the system we're using now. They're ridiculous wastes of time in many respects but I look at it as an opportunity to flex my debating skills. I'd rather mess up in one of these debates than something really important like what to have for dinner. I don't remember where I read it, some non-RS I'm sure, but Yamatoya supposedly came up with the whole ranked killers idea. I really should write an article on the group, it won't be very big but I do have some information. Suzuki's said Yamatoya and Sone were the main dudes. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 23:41, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

I trust you've won the debate by now? I just got sucked into another one myself... AfD... the worst... There seems to be something wrong with the page-view counter now... When I've checked the views for Fairy in a Cage the past view days[4], the 23rd seems to be a blank, and then nothing after the 24th (25th is my DYK day). Wouldn't you know it? I finally get wind of these thing, and it breaks down? Dekkappai (talk) 13:28, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Not at all, it's still going. Hopefully soon though. It's hard to walk away from ridiculous arguments, isn't it? I'd like to take part in a rational debate about something that matters instead of just trying to convince conservative-types to open their minds even slightly—they do have those, right? Rational debates, I mean. They exist don't they? That's bad timing on the viewer stats going down. I'm sure they're working on fixing it. I doubt they'll be able to retroactively get a count but we maybe it's just something wrong with the updating part. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 00:28, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I was being sarcastic. These arguments only end when one side quits. Right/wrong, logic, debating technique, citation to authorities, long- or short-range good of the project, readers?... none of that matters. Whoever sticks around at the page long enough is "consensus", and gets to set the rules. That's why it's the people who come here to tell others what to do-- not the article-writers-- who set policy. Again, we need Jimbo to swoop down and say, "Jesus H. Christ! Enough of this shit! Get to work!" Ain't going to happen though... On a similar note, I just learned a few good things about the inner workings of the bureacracy from that AfD I mentioned above. 1) "Biography of Living Persons" applies to dead people. 2) "A person can't be notable for one event" (a pulled-out-of-the-arse, wiki-editor-made-up rule with no basis in the real world) trumps "Multiple, reliable sources". In other words, the authority of Wiki editors trumps real-world authorities... This knowledge is comforting, in a way, because part of the terror of Kafkaesque organizations is the apparent incomprehensibility of the rules. They're beginning to make sense to me now. Is that a sign of danger?... The page-count thing? You may see "bad timing", I see a carefuly planned conspiracy :( Well, Naomi and I shall have our revenge! Dekkappai (talk) 19:22, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Amen, brother. Call me crazy but I think this one I'm involved it may wrap up soon. I probably am crazy. That's hilarious, I love how that one person pointed out what the L meant there. We're fighting human nature here. No one ever comes off as the jerk in their own story. As long as there are a handful of stubborn people in the argument, they'll find the policies or guidelines that make them look right and ignore the rest, dragging a debate out ad infinitum. Commonsense, unfortunately, does not trump all. Yet, stubbornness is not undefeatable. I'd join your AfD but it looks like a keep at the moment and I've actually never really read up on notability. Before you get too envious you should know that the worst, longest, more painful arguments I've been involved in have revolved around single words. Words. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 00:03, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Good luck with it. I spent too much time in "debates" today. I'm starting up research on Atsushi Yamatoya, so wait for that red to turn blue in a couple days... No, you don't want to look into that AfD article, it's pretty heart-breaking-- beautiful young Asian woman brutally killed by some cretin. I wouldn't have the heart to do much work on it either, but I was asked, after I gave the article-creator some advice... "Notability?" Simple: It means "I think it should be at Wikipedia." "Non-notable?" "I don't want to read about it, so I can't possibly imagine why anybody else should want to read about it."... The "notability" concept is high-up on my list of the worst things to happen to Wikipedia... Dekkappai (talk) 02:54, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

By the way: Did you know that Project Pornography sets the maximum number of entries in a filmography to six (6)? This issue has come up at: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Pornography#Lists_of_award_nominations. Oh, and if it will help, "minimal" means 8,942.5. Dekkappai (talk) 13:54, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Just took a glance at your jousting match. Doesn't look good. What I gather from skimming the discussion is 1) Guidelines are controlled by a small group of editors ("regulars") who do not want input from outside the group; 2) The regulars realize the system is biased and don't care. "Watcha gonna do about it?" 3) "minimal" is another word that Wikipedia has borrowed from the English language to mold and shape into whatever Wikipedia decides it should mean. 4) If you want a list to be stamped "Featured", you have to write about something important, like List of cast members of The Simpsons. Hey, maybe you & I should drop Japan and push List of Simpsons couch gags up to FL. ;) I'm joking of course. Writing the articles/lists are their own reward. And with the Kimura filmography you've done a good job on a tough topic. Dekkappai (talk) 17:53, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh-- and you should have started with the B-bomb, since they accepted that like a badge of honor. My technique is to start out with something mild like a B-bomb, then label the opposition leader something warm & fuzzy like Torquemada, escalate to Buchenwald analogies, "The Great Satan" and the like... To things like this I attribute my high standing in the Wiki-community ;) Dekkappai (talk) 18:13, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

The funny thing is, I was just thinking about a [newspaper] article I read about a study on how people's minds work. People were given various scenarios and their reactions were gauged. Something like, you accidentally took a sip from your friend's water bottle, or an old lady gets on a bus crowded bus but no one stands to offer her their seat. Conservatives would register more disgust at the first example while it wouldn't phase liberals that much, where liberals would be more upset by the second example. It's not a political thing, though it may manifest itself politically, but our brains are just wired differently. In my debate here, maybe it's just a couple people who are used to doing it one way and resent an "outsider" coming in with a "new" idea. For your AfD, maybe the guy's just not comfortable with the subject matter and lashes out instinctively. They're not bad people, they just think different. But when I see arguments like "bias is the minority's fault" or "the community only wants six films per porn bio"... Well, I'm glad I'm a laugher, and not a crier or face pummeler. Maybe the last one would be okay. :)

That's definitely a sad case, with the girl. And, man, was I lowballing "minimal", I thought it was 357, 358 tops. I'll let them know it's 8,942.5 and see what they say. :) Anyway, looking forward to Atsushi Yamatoya. Beyond the small amount I have on Hachiro Guryu I've got nothing on him. I can't believe it but Naked Rashomon is out on DVD, plus a couple other strictly Sone films. I thought we'd be lucky to see many more Suzukis, let alone his disciples. I guess the DVD boom's not over yet. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 21:56, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Sneaky. I had to check the diffs to see your strong-arm tactics... Actually, I would think about starting an article on Naked Rashomon-- it's another Yamatoya script-- but I don't have an original poster on it. I'd prefer that to the DVD cover. Also, my fire is beginning to burn low on the Roman Porno article-creations. I'm beginning to think it might be time to kick-start Otis' career-- Maybe take on Zatoichi or Torasan... The FL thing-- does only one 'nay' disqualify it? (If so, Otis' grumble remains in place: The one about it only taking a 51% "consensus" at an AfD to delete.) Have you considered de-linking? If you did, Otis wouldn't change his vote... Dekkappai (talk) 22:52, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

A little variety never hurt. I should probably do something for Kurosawa myself, it's the centennial of his birth in March. The impression that I got was that that one oppose was holding up the FLC, yes. The delink boat may have sailed, that one guy seems to have taken this personally and he's calling for stubs. I assume he'll take a breath at some point and we'll see if the community cares enough about FLC to make a mandate. Otherwise, well, I have one more idea, it's absurd so, of course, it should work but I don't want to spoil the surprise. :) Doctor Sunshine (talk) 01:11, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

A new day section break

Well, I just gave a little input. I'll probably live to regret it :) Right, as far as mainstream film, I'd been working on Korean cinema, assuming that it would be more under/poorly-represented here than Japanese. But Japanese cinema is in as bad, if not worse shape, including even major-majors like Kurosawa & Ozu, so maybe they deserve Otis' attention before the more pop-ish Torasan & Zatoichi series... I'm kind of floundering around for something to spark my interest at the moment, hence the slow-down in the Roman Porno output, and the up-swing in guideline-talk-page-time-wasting-chat... I keep meaning to mention/recommend these-- have you seen the Korean films Spider Forest, or The President's Last Bang? If not, put them on your to-see list. Two of my recent favorites. I'm of the opinion the the more interesting films, these days, are coming out of Korea rather than Japan... Dekkappai (talk) 19:46, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Recommendations added. You'll get no argument from me on that. It's been a few years since my last film festival but South Korean cinema was on fire. Not even in terms of Asian cinema but world cinema. I saw Woman on the Beach, Time and The Host the last time I attended TIFF and they were all great. Everywhere else it was hit and miss. Some really refreshing stuff coming out of there. Not a bad place to go, editing-wise. How do decide where to focus usually? Through a filmography or genre, or sort of a random attack? I think I've stayed with Suzuki and Japan so long just because I owe more books on them. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 04:30, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for jumping in again, by the way. It was starting to look a little Doctor Sunshine-centric in there. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 05:27, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

No problem. But futile, as predicted... Just part of my temporary, aimless article-ennui, I guess... Trying to finish up Watcher in the Attic-- a major Roman Porno, and there are still several major ones needing to be started-- but my enthusiasm is wandering... Got to attend the TIFF, did you? Great. I was in Pusan during the run of the 2004 PIFF, but didn't get a chance to attend. I know Kim Ki-duk gets a lot of international attention, but he always pisses me off-- including Time. I always get the impression in his films, that I'm being told a MESSAGE, but that the director doesn't really know what it is he wants to say, and is rambling on, contradicting himself, just enjoying the sound of his own voice... Sort of like listening to some lunatic preaching on the subway :) The guy's got talent, and good ideas, but I just don't think he thinks things through... Song Il-gon, on the other hand, doesn't get much attention, but I think he's about the best new director I've seen for years. I was avoiding watching Spider Forest, because I'd had my fill of J/K-horror for the time, gave it a look and was amazed. Nothing like what I'd expected. Really packs an emotional wallop, and benefits from repeated, repeated viewings. Give it a try. Also his Feathers in the Wind if you get a chance. Two very different films in genre, but show the same talent behind them. Another good, batshit-loony Korean film is Save the Green Planet!. Also, Chi-hwa-seon, by the grand-master of Korean cinema, Im Kwon-taek, and starring my favorite Korean actor, Choi Min-sik (star of Oldboy). I lived there before the national cinema took off. I got to see some of the first stirrings though, such as first-runs of Adada and Seopyeonje... We keep thinking about moving back, and the exciting cinema culture would be one big benefit to being there now... Dekkappai (talk) 06:13, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh-- "How do I decide where to focus?" Answer: I don't. Just sort of wander around where my interest takes me. When I find a big chunk of work to do that interests me, I'll do that methodically for a while until I wander on again. And if the big chunk is incomplete, I'll eventually wander back to work on it some more eventually. I'm just a volunteer hobbyist editor at this place, having fun reading, writing and learning... Too bad there are so few of us, and so many full-time, professional authorities and supervisors ;) Dekkappai (talk) 06:39, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

I should clarify it was the Toronto TIFF and not Tokyo. I wish I could defend Kim Ki-duk but I've only seen a few of his films and the only thing I remember is that they looked great, that one sculpture in Time with the stairs completed by the giant hands especially. That doesn't speak well for his staying power but he's at least a good-looking subway lunatic. :) Loved Green Planet and the revenge trilogy. I mentioned film festivals because I'm now an hour away from my nearest art house theatre and I haven't been doing a good job keeping up with contemporary world cinema on DVD either; but I'd meant to delve deeper into Korean cinema so I'll definitely check these out. It was just essentially a dumb, teen, sex comedy but I'll even put in a good word for Dasepo Naughty Girls, the visual inventiveness there put me in mind of the Japanese or Czech new waves. What chance does the rest of the world have when they can give a teen sex farce artistic merit? I'm embarrassed for my national cinema. I want so much to like Canadian films but there's just nothing happening here (aside from Quebec which draws from European roots, instead of aping Hollywood without the budget). Although, did you know we've produced schlock too? I've only seen a couple Canucksploitation films but can modestly recommend Jesus Christ Vampire Hunter. Sort of a micro-budgeted camp film made by members of the Canadian punk scene. It's good fun. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 03:00, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

とろんと? That's in Minato-ku, right? Ah, but it must make you envious being north of the country that can boast such native-born, all-American cinematic artists as Charlie Chaplin, Alfred Hitchcock, Billy Wilder, Fritz Lang... But seriously, I despise soulless Hollywood as much as the next guy, but I can't quite bring myself to hate the whole national cinema when we produce the occasional Buster Keaton, John Ford, Orson Welles, and recent people like David Lynch, The Coen Brothers, and, on good days, Tarantino and Tim Burton. On the other hand, I can still bitch about this country for destroying its own geniuses-- Keaton & Welles, for example... Canada? Well, you've got lots of cinematic luminaries, don't you? There's... David Cronenberg, and... um... ah... Raymond Burr? (Just kidding, of course-- lots of prominent Canadians in film, problem is they usually come to the US, instead of highlighting Canada.) I'll keep my eyes open for that film though-- look forward to a rare glimpse into the hidden, exotic Canadian culture :) Don't get me wrong about Kim Ki-duk-- I think he's got a lot of talent, and a lot of good ideas... in fact, I've got a pretty hefty collection of his DVDs... I just always feel like he loses track of his ideas, about 3/4 into the film... (Kiyoshi Kurosawa sometimes gives me the same impression.) Yes, I think Time was the one that featured that outdoor erotic sculpture museum, right? My wife insists we saw that, but I sure as hell don't remember it-- and it's the sort of thing you'd think I would remember ;) But we spent years there together, traveling all over the country every weekend, gawking at anything cultural we could come across. So I may have just forgotten it... Dekkappai (talk) 17:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Guy walks into the Featured List Clinic, holds his finger out and says, "Doctor, I think my finger's broken."

Doctor looks at the finger, which is pointing at the door. Doctor turns his head towards the door. "No, sorry, I don't work on doors. You want carpentry."

Slow day here. I'd post it there, but it would be wasted... Dekkappai (talk) 19:33, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

On the Internet... no one knows that you're a moose. We've got some serious brain drain in Canada. The U.S. draws talent from all over in all fields but the transition is especially easy for us because of the proximity and we're probably more familiar with American culture than our own anyway. But at a price, for sure. Look at Woody Allen. Now that he's working with European funding he's making good movies again for the first time in a decade or more. If I'm really giving Canadian film viewing advice I should recommend Claude Jutra first. Mon oncle Antoine is constantly being voted our best film and I know a huge Ozu fan that loves the guy. It's an excellent film at least on par with canonical stuff, if not topping any bfi-type lists.

Yes, I get the impression that one or two of the people in there aren't exactly the type that "get jokes". :) Doctor Sunshine (talk) 00:26, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, did I use the phrase "illiterate literalism" there at one of my rants? Or did I go with the more prosaic "self-important jackasses?" Woody Allen's making good movies again? This is news-- I'll have to investigate. (Last one of his I attempted to watch was Husbands and Wives. Only made it through about 15 minutes of it-- irritating as hell imitation of Cassavetes, with bad hand-held camera... oh man, how I hate bad hand-held, jiggly, constant-zooming in & out, constantly moving, for no reason, camera...) Yes, I've heard of Mon oncle Antoine, and looking at the Canadian Film Award, I know I saw Lies My Father Told Me on Channel 100 in the '70s... in fact it seems like there were several Canadian films and American Film Theatre releases on early cable around that time... I'll have to introduce you to U.S. cinema sometime :-) speaking of which-- there is an area of U.S. cinema I've been eyeballing for work someday-- exploitation/grindhouse/drive-in-- 1950s-1970s era... Oh, and I think I've found a way out of my slump: It's the article-writing that is slowing me down, so I figure I'll do more mechanical-type work. Maybe I'll go around tagging other people's work for deletion-- that's pretty easy... But on the other hand, there's filmographies. Maybe I'll go back & finish, translate/transliterate filmographies to bios I've started before. Dekkappai (talk) 13:36, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Those both have their charm but you nailed it with the first one. I actually had to stop using metaphors and figures of speech in there because they were just ZOOM! It's unbelievable. I'm hoping it's just an age thing. They say kids generally don't understand sarcasm until around age 10, it may just be a matter of it being, y'know, 14 or 15 for metaphors and junk. So, I'll just keep this going for a couple more years and we should be able to figure it out. *cocks gun, places barrel to temple*

I won't bore you anymore with Canadian films as I'm boring myself too but I still feel the compulsion to sell what little good we have so that whenever I get around to making films and fixing the industry an audience might still exist. :) Don't get your hopes too high for Woody but, yes, Husbands and Wives was around the time he started going way down hill. The problem is America's got so much money (or had :)) that they could draw all this talent but it came to mean that it was all about money. It's not a stars talent that matters, it's if they're a good earner. Woody proved himself as a comedy director and no one would take a chance making anything else with him. So, we end up with all these painfully unfunny comedies. Since he switched to European financing, I think with Match Point, he's been making more dramas and they're getting progressively better. If you're going to give him a second chance, I'd recommend Vicky Cristina Barcelona. On hand-held camera work, Polanski once said something like, "I don't understand this shaky camera. What? Is the camera man masturbating?" And, oh yeah, definitely go with the filmographies. And be sure to nominate them at FLC... Doctor Sunshine (talk) 01:02, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Crap. Now I have to go withdraw all those AfDs I just started ;)... Yeah, I've started on the romaji-ization of the Yumika Hayashi filmography, and will work on more complete filmographies for others... Ah, Polanski-- another fine U.S. director :) I don't mind hand-held/shaky-cam if it's done for a reason, but if it's done non-stop, and just as a cheap way to stimulate the audience, it loses me quickly... Just re-watched Spider Forest. Man, what a film. The reviews on it indicate that it confuses people. But to me, it's very David Lynchian-- confusing in a good way-- without being quite as incomprehensible as some of his stuff can be. Pay attention to head gestures, articles of clothing, apples... Little things like that tie it all together. It's the kind of movie you get something new out of every time you watch it-- and it requires at least two viewings... By the way, I got called a "hoser" once in B.C., before the term was well-known in the U.S. Took a couple years & Bob and Doug McKenzie till I figured out I'd been insulted. And the time for a good come-back had long since passed by then :) Maybe I'll work "hoser" into my next FLC rant... Couldn't make things any worse... Dekkappai (talk) 15:42, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

That new vote on the Kimura filmography shows a... minimal amount of class. But what do you think about the suggestion that each entry be cited? I think I used to do this-- back when articles on anything to do with Japanese erotic entertainment was getting put up for deletion on the grounds of, "How do we know this person/film even exists?"-- but I thought it made it too cluttered... I did a really crappy job on that with the Naomi Tani filmography (in the notes field), and keep meaning to clean that mess up... Citing individual entries might be worth considering though, if it can be done better... Dekkappai (talk) 19:57, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I was actually expecting a hornets' nest of red link opposes after I started the RfC, so that's nothing. The list is already heavy with the job title footnotes and the general system is more than verifiable. I would imagine since Colin knows how much I love pointless busy work he was just trying to woo me with some more. How's a guy get so lucky? Doctor Sunshine (talk) 20:30, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and he actually used a metaphor after I made that comment here, so he may be reading this. I hope he picked up on your "minimal" bit there. :) Doctor Sunshine (talk) 20:35, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah. Using a metaphor in that discussion would be about as useless as using a.. something... for a... something or other... I'd pop in & drop the "H"oser bomb, but I doubt it would help much... Ah well. So "Featured list" is blocked to those of us working on the fringes. There's a whole world of cinema awaiting future work... Dekkappai (talk) 21:03, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, hey, it's not over yet, ya hoser. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 06:27, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Let me know if any good comes of it. I suspect the "regulars" have it sewn up though, and good article-work time is being wasted... I just came into possession of the Sister Street Fighter DVD box. Four films with poster images, and an informative booklet by Patrick Macias. Some sourcing to be used there. I'm deep into filmographies at the moment though. And who you callin' hoser, ya hoser? Give me a couple years and I'll think of a witty come-back... Dekkappai (talk) 13:54, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

That's not cool when Americans do it, man. Show some respect... my mother was a hoser... :) It's looking doubtful in there. I remember FAC being a positive experience. I think it's mostly a problem of age, a number of FLCers read as very young—a tad stubborn and short sighted—where FACers seem to have a few years on them. Most of them seem like good people but when an FLC director is getting whiny and standoffish the process is pretty much a joke. Still, no regrets, I tried to help fix a problem. And when even someone as rigid Colin is able to concede a few points, however minor, there's hope for humanity. I didn't know there was a whole Sister Streetfighter series too. So many things to check out, let alone write about. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 01:12, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I left a little input at the ANI page, or whatever its acronym is-- you know, the one where you report people for calling you a "poopy-head", and everyone jumps in to discuss it for about a month, winding up with yourself being blocked... In the time that I'm not trying to think up a come-back to "hoser", or to convince someone that the lack of one article does not influence the quality of another article, I've cobbled together Hotaru Hazuki filmography, and Tarō Araki filmography is about ready to go public (User:Dekkappai/Tools/Japanese director article). Sure, they'll never be Featured Lists, but then I hear FLC's run by a buncha hosers. ;) Dekkappai (talk) 19:47, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

What a nutty debate. It's either ownership issues, they didn't understand how Requests for Comments work, or both. I can't believe how many times dictionary definitions had to be raised over the course of this thing. Anyway, those look great, I don't know how you do them so fast. I was going cross-eyed after one. The only thing I'd suggest is standardizing the column widths, be it by percentage or I think I did it by points—it's been so long I can't even remember. Hopefully that was my last debate for a while so I should be able to find some time for writing a little bit me-self. I hope you don't feel like you wasted your time proofing the Kimura filmography, it's still featured quality, it's just a matter of letting the criteria catch up. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 00:02, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Time wasted at the Kimura article? Absolutely not. That's what I'm here for-- to contribute and improve content. No way was that a waste. The thing that infuriates me, waste-wise, is the crap that goes on in the AfDs, the projects, the guidelines, and the endless debates, and the resultant "personal attacks", and reports of those "personal attacks" and grand inquisitions on those "Wikiquette offences" or whatever... THAT'S the waste. Writing, editing, copy-editing? That's what we should all be here for. Too bad it seems to be only the tip of the iceberg of the editing population who are... I fiddled around with the columns, but got some pretty screwy results. I figure the info's the important thing, someone who is better at coding can spruce it up later if they want. And info-wise, I see there's still some work to be done... And Sachi Hamano filmography (the most prolific Japanese female director) awaits. Dekkappai (talk) 02:44, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Good good. As your help was definitely beneficial and most appreciated and I didn't want to give the impression that I was ungrateful by not compromising on the link thing. That final idea I mentioned earlier, by the way, I was going to put in a bot request to create the stubs from the info in the filmography. I would have liked to have seen the reactions but I'm not going to bother, that Sunshine guy's arguments in there were too persuasive. I saw that AfD you mentioned earlier closed favourably. Are you debate free now too? I'll take a look at the column thing later but, yeah, it's a minor point. You're rocking those filmographies. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 04:35, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

The only other RfC I was ever involved in involved an editor who was irritating editors throughout several projects by mass-prodding/AfDing, despite warnings to slow down. That one went on for over a month, at least, I'm pretty sure, and that just concerned the behavior of one editor, not criteria with Wikipedia-wide consequences... and it wound up with him becoming an Admin in the end :) Since these things tend to blow up in the faces of those who bring them up, the reluctance to allow the possibility of a discussion to go on is even more confusing... Apparently the regulars think nothing more can be added to the discussion because they themselves have nothing more to add to it... Sort of like Yogi Berra's comment on some restaurant, "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded!" Dekkappai (talk) 13:38, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Hah, you've nailed it, methinks. Maybe if I take a page from the opposing playbook, i.e., the deny everything, scorched earth debate technique, I, too, could one day become an administrator. I'm a little unclear on the ratio but I understand admin opinions count as double or more to that of the lowly editor. You know what my problem is? I've still got a nasty idealist streak in me. I was expecting logic and common sense to match or top the path of least resistance and group think. Rookie mistake. More eyes does not necessary equal more brains. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 23:50, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah... Me & Otis keep stumbling into "debates" too... But I'm still plugging away on Sachi Hamano filmography. Expect that to be blue-linked before long... The most shamelessly, scandalously, stupendously fertile female director Japan has yet produced... She even directed the film starring the subject of my very first edit/article here: Mariko Morikawa... the grand dame who gave me my user name ;) Dekkappai (talk) 00:05, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

AllMovie

For what it's worth, I did attempt discussion at WT:FILM, but it did not pan out. TfD obviously got people's attention, attention I wish I had for that discussion. Don't worry, I am not foaming at the mouth toward the opposition to deletion nor you (though it may kind of seem like it). I know at the end of the day, using the AMG template does not bring Wikipedia to its knees. The outcome won't stop me from participating on Wikipedia in other venues... I believe that discussion for deprecation, especially across so many articles with too much time to investigate if such links were really added with the idea of supplementing the articles or just doing it because it's always been done, would take more time and less attention than anyone cares for. The TfD was an attempt to sever the Gordian knot. Hope you understand where I'm coming from. Happy editing. :) Erik (talk | contribs) 23:52, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I do understand where you're coming from. I'd seen a few other reforms you were pushing regarding bold use in cast sections and guideline tweaks only I didn't feel any compulsion to join in as I agreed with those and they seemed to be moving in the right direction. I just happen to, obviously, not agree in this case. I don't think the discussion's been especially heated—no one's even been called a Nazi yet, which I believe is a prerequisite for such on the Internet—and even if it were, I'm not one for grudges. Plus, you earned some goodwill for reviewing Branded to Kill at FA back in the day, even if I recall we'd been arguing about cover art or something at the time too. :) Incidentally, kudos on Fight Club, likewise I would have joined in but that it suffered from no shortage of support. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 17:54, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Dammit... and just when I was working up a nice Hermann Göring analogy... :( Dekkappai (talk) 18:21, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, don't drop it altogether. Hip pocket it. Godwin's law is still in effect. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 19:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Haha, I have worked on Apt Pupil (film) and Valkyrie (film)... so take your best shot. Anyway, TfD closed as keep. I'll leave the issue alone for a while and reflect on a better approach (and hopefully enough attention to related discussion). Erik (talk | contribs | wt:film) 19:16, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Apt Pupil? That sounds like something Hitler would edi—I've probably run this joke into the ground by now, haven't I? Anyway, fair 'nough. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 04:30, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Takeo Kimura filmography/archive1

I've restarted the nom; hopefully the consensus won't be so murky this time. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Thanks, Doctor Sunshine (talk) 07:37, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

By the way, regarding the undo of The Rambling Man's close of the RfC at Wikipedia talk:Featured list criteria, I am neutral about it, but you might notify him of your re-opening out of courtesy. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:18, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

That actually hadn't even occurred to me. Good call, I'll do that. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 06:27, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Doctor Sunshine. You have new messages at Dabomb87's talk page.
Message added 19:05, 11 October 2009 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Dabomb87 (talk) 19:05, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Re: RfC: Removal of minimal red link criteria in 5a

The community has had more than a week seeing as the RfC was started on 29 Sep. There was clearly a consensus for the RfC to be closed (twice). The notice at the top of the closed RfC states "The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it." You have other avenues open to you if you disagree: WP:ANI or Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/User_conduct#Use_of_administrator_privileges. So I won't revert my edit. --JD554 (talk) 11:25, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

You certainly have a knack for understatement: "the community deserves more than a week", "a couple editors" :-). Just because you started the RfC, doesn't mean you have the right to determine when it closes. The same ground was being raked over again and again, quite a number of editors had noted this and two different admins agreed and closed the discussion. You say that community input is good, and of course I agree. The point you seem to be missing is that the community had reached a decision - that the RfC had run it's course and was going nowhere. --JD554 (talk) 19:47, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Two admins, one completely uninvolved, had assessed the situation to be going nowhere and closed the RfC. As I mentioned above, you have other options if you continue to disagree. --JD554 (talk) 20:07, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Weird Love Makers, pt. 2

Hi, Doc. I was poking around a newspaper database just now, and see that Weird Lovemakers was playing the U.S. drive-in and grindhouse circuits from at least 1964 to 1969. In '64 it's paired with an Elke Sommer opus (Sweet Ecstasy). In '69, San Francisco, it's billed as a "Companion Hit" (which is likely just hype, but there it is). I find no write-ups, just advertisements. Anyway, this does answer the question brought up in that source I gave you-- wondering what audiences the film was shown to. It was shown to the Raincoat Brigade :-) I don't think people born after, say, 1975 are aware of how difficult it was to get a glimpse of the unclothed female form in the U.S. before the advent of cable & Internet, and, therefore, how titillating these softcore productions were at the time... Anyway, interested in more details? Think these primary sources would be useful to the article? Dekkappai (talk) 17:10, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

That works. There was a thing in Boxoffice magazine (via that online archive) about it doing very well but it was only one theatre owner very early in its run and it was attributed partially to poor weather and people getting in out of the rain or heat or something. I didn't know how to work that in. Those sound like they could be worked in. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 20:20, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Weird Love Makers on the Drive-in / Grindhouse circuit

Looks like it was playing fairly regular throughout the '60s. Seems to have debuted here in late '64. I haven't seen it, but its persistence lends credence to my guess-- that it wasn't mis-represented as adult entertainment, but that it was actually pretty racy stuff for its time, even if it was of a higher artistic quality than the films with which it was billed... Anyway, you asked for it. Sit back and take a nostalgic trip through old-time sleeze cinema:

• October 25, 1964. Salina Journal (Salina, Kansas). 81 DRIVE IN Ends Sunday!; at 7:00-10:00 "Sweet Ecstasy" and Weird Love Makers" "They do everything!"

• November 14, 1964. Daily Capital News (Jefferson City, Missouri). Bridge Theatre: Torrid! Hot! It's Elke Sommer in "Sweet Ecstasy" Also "The Weird Love Makers" Pleas* NOTE: This program for mature Adults... Admission $1.

• December 13, 1964. Kokomo Tribune (Kokomo, Indiana). South Drive In: Sweet Ecstasy in color. Weird Love Makers, Young Love color cartoon. "Adult Entertainment"

• July 08, 1965. Gettysburg Times (Gettysburg, Pennsylvania). MONOCACY DRIVE-IN THEATRE. STARTS THIS SUNDAY — EXCLUSIVE SHOWING Adults Only; Limited Area, Come Early; ADMISSION $1.00; "BLAZE STARR GOES NUDIST" and "THE WEIRD LOVE MAKERS"

• October 20, 1966. Bennington Banner (Bennington, Vermont). "Days of Sin and Nights of Mania" plus 2nd adult hit "The Weird Love Makers"

• September 27, 1967. Daily Times, The (Salisbury, Maryland). Pocomoke Drive-In Theatre. ADULT ENTERTAINMENT. TONITE "ALLEY CATS" — Plus "WEIRD LOVE MAKERS"

• May 24, 1968. Idaho State Journal. (Pocatello, Idaho). NOW SHOWING: Capitol Theatre, 153 South Main, "Tony Rome"; starts Monday, "Erotic Touch" and "Weird Love Makers."

• February 23, 1969; San Antonio Light (San Antonio, Texas). PRINCE Downtown CA6-6012; 125 EAST HOUSTON STREET; Between St. Mary's and Soledad St. "The Weird Love Makers" They do everything! plus co-hit dangerous love! "The Twilight Girls"

• May 2, 1969. The Argus (Fremont, CA). Art Cinema (Oakland, CA) 'Adults Only' Flesh of My Flesh; plus companion hit Weird Love Makers
• May 09, 1969. Oakland Tribune (Oakland, California). ART CINEMA Broadway at 12th; STRICTLY ADULT ART FILMS! "FLESH OF MY FLESH" "WEIRD LOVE MAKERS"

• February 05, 1970. Daily Mail, The (Hagerstown, Maryland). 2 EXCITING ADULT MOTION PICTURES 'THE LIBERTINE' In Color; Plus 2nd Adult Hit "WEIRD LOVE MAKERS"; X-RATED; SHOW STARTS 7 P.M.; Come as Late as 8:30 and Still See Both Features; FREE IN-CAR HEATERS

• November 03, 1965. Morning Herald (Hagerstown, Maryland). "A Second Cup" BY Gloria Dahlhamer

  I wonder what ever happened to the notion should be entertaining. It seems to me the world's movie-makers have become so obsessed with the idea of "facing the facts of life" they've forgotten that movies sometimes need do nothing more than entertain.

  A movie suitable for tho entire family is a rarity. That sex, insanity, perversion, murder, adultery, and all the other old "taboos" of movie-making are not necessary to sell a film today has been proved by Walt Disney. Yet, those gems like "Old Yeller" and "Mary Poppins" are few and far between.

  Many families, like mine, are restricted to weekend movie-going by jobs and school-age children.

  A check of the movies screened in this area during the past two months, reveals that one weekend's movie fare included: "The 'D' Girls," "Bikini Beach," "Murder Most Foul," "Ski Party," "The Girls on the Beach" and "Sweet Ecstasy."

  This bill of entertainment was followed by "Strange Bedfellows" and "Harlow." billed in its ads as a blazing story based on the blistering best-seller.

  The following weekend line-up included "The Weird Love Makers" and "Naked in the Deep." Then we had "The Orgy at Lil's Place" in blushing color, "Nudist Memories," "My Blood Runs Cold" and "She."

  Playing a long run was "Ecco", billed as an adult picture only, which dares you "to learn, love, lust and laugh."

  More recently, the screen offered "Darling." called by its makers "a powerful and bold motion picture made by adults, with adults, for adults."

  I admit some of these are extreme cases, and not all of them came out of Hollywood.

  But it points up the fact that the world's moviemakers have become drunk on their sudden freedom from old-fashioned censorship, and are failing to provide good, entertaining movies for a large segment of their audiences—the family.

  Maybe someone should tell them about "togetherness."

Dekkappai (talk) 22:45, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Wow, that's some impressive researching. I'll see what I can do but I've had a touch of that article ennui you were talking about myself, so it probably won't be this week. Mature subject matter, no doubt, but I'm doubtful there's even any nudity in the film unless Metzger cut new footage into the film as well as the trailer himself. I'd spring for the Something Weird Video release but whenever Criterion gets around to releasing it on DVD I'm sure they'll mention any differences and the transfer will look and sound infinitely better, so I'm holding out. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 00:09, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

My pleasure. I keep thinking about digging into that era for some real work/research-- the sleazy U.S. grindhouse/drive-in circuits of the '50s through '70s. Very innocent by today's standards. Kind of brings back warm and fuzzy memories of my youth... If it was released in Japan in 1960, I don't think it could have had any overt nudity. But if it were released in the US in late '63, early '64, it could have had a little (that would have been about 5 years after Russ Meyer's The Immoral Mr. Teas, but still could have been considered "Adult" without any nudity-- things like Scum of the Earth! and The Defilers were getting by with just shocking subject-matter and no skin. And yes, the US end could have added footage. They did that with mainstream stuff like Godzilla, as well as with grindhouse stuff like the 1966 release of Daydream... About writing-ennui: I'm finding mindless busy-work to be a good cure-- putting together these filmographies. I'm sure I'll get another hankering for some real writing soon... Just need a little variety... Dekkappai (talk) 06:24, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, there was a picture of Imamura and the owner of the Kanji distribution company editing Pigs and Battleships for the American market in the Boxoffice magazine archive. So, the distributor and Nikkatsu probably did that with The Warped Ones, who then sold it to Audubon who edited it again maybe. Good work with the Hamano filmography. And I thought your username would translate something like that. Mine's purely absurdist, partially based on a bright yellow shirt I used to wear. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 02:28, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Yep-- thought you'd have figured out my username by now... Means I appreciate the Rubenesque Asian female form though, not that I have one myself... except by marriage :) ...I've seen some of the early pink directors point to Imamura as the main influence on the genre as it developed, rather than the more obvious Satoru Kobayashi's Flesh Market (1962 - the first pink film). Interesting too... not to slight any of the other greats-- Kurosawa in particular-- but I've always had a special fondness for Ozu and Imamura. Odd because Imamura worked with Ozu in his early years, and made a big deal of completely rejecting the old master's style and attitudes... But there's still something that connects them... Idiosyncratic attention to detail? Both being very "Japanese", albeit in very different ways? Sly, witty observations of the human race?... Not sure, but there it is... "Discussion"-wise, I just bit my Wiki-tongue, so there might be hope for me after all... I noticed that my name had been totally erased from the edit histories of several images I've uploaded. This happens when you upload an image larger than 200px, and someone else "fair use reduces" it-- even if it is a Public Domain image. The reducer becomes the "original uploader"... Not a big blow to my ego, but I was going to go leave a note at the "Fair Use" chat page that this should be addressed out of courtesy to the editor who actually found/scanned/or otherwise provided the image. But took a look at some of the comments-- hard-assed Wiki-cop-types who consider image-uploaders just half a step better than outright vandals. Bah. At least the image is there... for now... so I shouldn't complain. Dekkappai (talk) 18:29, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I'd just assumed it was breast expert, or something similar. I was close. Sorry about the late reply here, I was down with a virus. Imamura's a favourite of mine too, more his early stuff but I'd say the same of Kurosawa. A lot of young directors were rejecting Ozu at the time. He was the epitome of tradition where the new wave was about to kick off. Suzuki's said that when he was an AD, he and the other ADs would sit around talking about creating an anti-Ozu cinema. Speaking of conflict, apparently Suzuki didn't think too highly of Imamura, he described his work as boring films made by a boring person. (He may have been drunk when he said that.) He also said that Imamura's films weren't money makers, they were prestige films supported by the money the actioners were bringing in. Maybe a little professional rivalry. I love em all, though. That image thing has happened to me too. Maybe you'll get lucky and a crusader will see the reducers name on some of your images and they'll have at it. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 02:27, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, if I'd been a young Japanese director in the late '50s, I'm sure I'd have been part of the Ozu-mutiny too. Fortunately we're at far enough a distance that we don't have to take sides and can enjoy both sides. I'd take issue with Suzuki's complaint against Imamura though. If I'd been drunk along with him when he said that, I'd have been reckless enough to remind Suzuki why he was fired from Nikkatsu: For making movies that make neither sense nor cents. :) Yeah, I'm sure it was just professional rivalry/jealousy. I can't see Suzuki not "getting" Imamura. And again, fortunately, we don't have to take sides, and can enjoy both directors. I've been plugging away on the Yumi Yoshiyuki filmography for about a week now. Turned out to be quite a bit more extensive a project than I'd originally thought-- turns out she spells her name two ways, and both spellings contain a hefty body of work... After I'm finished with Mme. Yoshiyuki I may finally just make that long-threatened leap out of the smut trade, and really dig in on Ozu or Zatoichi or Torasan or Imamura or somebody or other... Dekkappai (talk) 16:16, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Gotta rebel against something. Suzuki also wrote an essay about not liking Fellini's films. No accounting for taste, I guess. But there's lots of examples like that. Takovsky attended a small screening of Stan Brakhage films once and went off on a rant about how terrible he thought they were. Those kind of things I can live with, what I really can't wrap my head around is when directors like Tarantino and David Lynch are all chummy with a frat boy hack like Eli Roth. There isn't someone with talent they can take under their wings? Well done on the filmography. That is one prolific lady. And good luck with the mainstreaming. I'll vouch for you if your rep takes a hit. Ozu's saucy in his own right, isn't he? There's a deep sexual undercurrent in his work, right? In that several of his characters are implied to have had sexual relations at some point in order to have begat their families. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 05:05, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, I don't know Eli Roth except as the "Bear Jew". Guess I'll have to take a look at one of his movies just on your say-so :) Actually, I've always found a streak of naughtiness in Ozu. The fart/poop & pee-jokes, obviously, and the naughty kids... There's more, but I can't think off-hand. (I'm aware too that the scatological humor is considered more "naughty" by us WASPs than it is in Japan & Korea... I get a daily reminder of that at home... I could share some interesting stories ;) And wouldn't you know it? Just as I decide to go legit, I find a new treasure-trove of Pink film posters, several to award-winners I hadn't started articles on because of the lack of a poster... Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in! I'm beginning to feel like Michael Corleone... On the other hand, maybe I've found my warm, comfy little niche and I should just be happy with it. I got into it just to protect some articles from deletion here, but in the process I've collected sourcing and research techniques in the area of Japanese cinematic eroticism that it would take others quite a while to put together... Tough work, but somebody's got to do it :) Dekkappai (talk) 22:38, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

I barely remember Roth's movies but the worst theatre going experience I've had was a Hostel workprint at TIFF. It was as much him as the people sitting to either side of me. Maybe it's unfair to hold his movie goers against him but I'm going to allow it. He said the film was his answer to J-horror, trying to one up them, but it was pretty lame as far as gore movies go. The one high point was when an audience member pointed out spots where he could have gone further during the Q&A afterward. A small thing but good schadenfreude. Ozu's naughtyish, perhaps. The scatological humour definitely shirks some expectations in film circles. Very few filmic masters have exploited the solid-when-you're-expecting-a-gas gag. He gets points for that. And nothing wrong with sticking with what you know. Though, if Ozu ever comes back from the dead to direct a Godzilla-Torasan-Zatoichi crossover, I'm going to expect you to step up you game whether it has breasts in it or not. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 00:02, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

You met Eli Roth in Tokyo?! :) You know Kurosawa was supposed to direct the original Gojira, right? At least I think that's what I read somewhere once... Ishiro Honda was a close associate of Kurosawa... Just brings home how stupid the contemporary US reviews of the better Godzilla films were. They'd fall all over themselves praising Kurosawa, then treat a Godzilla film like it was an Ed Wood movie, insulting cast and crew-- when Kurosawa films & Godzilla films sometimes had the same cast & crew... Cinematic incontinence from the masters? You can't tell me Cary Grant emerged with unsoiled undies from that wild car ride at the beginning of North by Northwest. And doesn't the Duke have a brown spot on his pants in the final walk-out of The Searchers (film)? "What makes a man to wander?" indeed... (Absurd as those comparisons are, Ozu was doing poopy-pant jokes at the same time these films were made, and in films that are held in equal esteem... So, yeah, I think he deserves some credit for "naughtiness".)... Before downloading all the posters to that newest Pink Film treasure trove I mentioned above, I decided it was time to organize and catalogue my pink poster image holdings-- to make it easier to see which ones I had were to films with inklings of "notability", to work on them for potential articles... and this is what I've come up with: User:Dekkappai/Tools/Pink film article/posters, User:Dekkappai/Tools/Pink film article/Xces, User:Dekkappai/Tools/Pink film article/Nakamura... And these are just the ones I've got identified. Guess how I've been spending my spare time ;) Wiki-argument-wise, I've just come across the fact that interviews with the subject of an article are banned from biographies. Apparently, because it's possible for someone to not tell the Truth about a solid fact, all interviews are banned-- even for quotes, opinions, observations from the subject. Because, you know, if they lie about their age, they might lie about their opinions too. Can't trust these slimeballs-- who knows if they're even "notable" ferchrissakes, and not just puffing themselves up so they can get on Wikipedia?!... I just hope none of the teenyboppers who make the rules here ever discover that their wide-eyed faith in the infallibility of secondary sources ("reliable sources" as they call them) is on shaky ground. If they ever discover a mistake in a secondary source-- and those of us who have ever read a book know that happens all the time-- then the WikiCops will decide that no sources are good enough for Wikipedia. I can see the edit summaries already: "Removed All Sources-- Sources are inherently unreliable". Then anyone who wants to write an article-- rather than telling others how to write one-- will be up Shit Creek without a paddle ;) Dekkappai (talk) 15:29, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

That Kurosawa thing does sound familiar. It's hard to imagine but I can believe it. It's still a household name today, imagine if Mifune'd donned that suit. It'd either have destroyed both of them or you'd have dozens of radioactive lizards showing up at your door every Halloween to this day. I think all the canon directors get put up on a pedestal but the only reason most of them get there in the first place is because they make fully human films, bawdy humour included. Bergman's thought of as austere and dark but he has plenty of clowning. Fellini's almost nothing but. But Ozu did so many family movies and he has such a refined, mellow style so that it's probably a bigger shock to cineastes when he goes blue. That is a lot of posters. You're one ambitious dude. So assuming you don't stumble across any more, you should be done, what, early 2059 or so? And you have to admit, those wikicops have a point. I mean, what's the alternative? Commonsense? Here? Conceivably, someone may come into existence that is both notable and reliable, someday, maybe. But until that "magical" person appears: don't trust anybody over 30, or anyone with an agenda, opinion or vested interest in anything at all. That way madness lies. Doctor Sunshine (talk) 03:41, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, I don't intend on making articles on all of them :) I look at it as an organizing effort of my collection. Once I've sifted through the pile, I'll start articles on a few of the ones that stand out for one reason or another... Careful how you use that word "Commonsense". Some Wikicop will see it and start using it to mean its complete opposite, like they do with so many other words around here :( Oh. I've got Cabin Fever for my viewing pleasure later on, soon as I finish the Coens' Burn After Reading... About how much booze will it take to put me in the proper mood to enjoy it? :) Dekkappai (talk) 04:13, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, I guess two scotches and a beer aren't enough... Actually I was kind of disappointed. I didn't hate it, but I didn't like it either. What got me, maybe, were the DVD blurbs preparing me for the most extreme expression of gore and sex I've ever witnessed in my entire life!!! and it was actually very, very mild... I didn't really know how to take it either-- was it supposed to be a satire of Friday the 13th-era splatter flix? Well, those films had just as much self-ridiculing humor as this one did. The one "Ha!" the movie got out of me was when guy fell into a rancid lake with a bloated corpse. It cheated the "Ha!" out of me because I was thinking, "OK, here it comes! The guy's going to flail around with the corpse, blood & guts flying everywhere. He'll try to climb up the ladder, ladder will collapse, and he'll fall back into the mire. Even more extreme blood & gut mayhem will ensue." No such luck. Guy falls in next to the corpse, then swims out. The music tells me I'm supposed to be shocked, horrified and appalled!... I guess that's what annoyed me most about it-- the filmmaker seemed to be much more impressed with his scenario than I was. Maybe if I'd discovered it on my own, and it had a budget comparable to Night of the Living Dead (which it blatantly ripped off at the end) or El Mariachi, I might have enjoyed it more... I believe the label "Frat boy" has been applied, and appropriately so... Anyway, thanks for the recommendation... The Coen Brothers movie was probably one of their weaker efforts, yet still head & shoulders above 99.9% of the films coming out these days. It was another of their observations of humanity: Dangerously stupid, arrogant, self-important pinheads whose actions lead to disaster. They've given us that message many times, but it bears repeating, and they tell it so well... Oh, and I just left a チomment for you at Wikipedia_talk:Red_link#Modest_Proposal:_Change_.22redlink.22_default_color_to_GREEN ;) Dekkappai (talk) 20:04, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

I think you would have needed a full keg. The only thing I remember about Cabin Fever was someone hyping it based on that one scene where the hillbilly kid does the backflip or jump kick or whatever out of nowhere. I was raised on Monty Python so absurdist humour is right up my alley but the description was much better than the actual scene which did nothing for me. His next film was shot in Prague at the recommendation of Tarantino for the low cost of shooting, distance from Hollywood moneymen and their liberal drug policies. As near as I can figure, Roth must have been high through the entire shoot which could have led him to believe he'd made an intense film, while sober viewers are confronted with a mediocre mess. I was heavily into festivaling at the time, I saw about 50 movies in ten days that year, and kept a movie log—as I knew it would all be a blur without one. I usually wrote maybe 2 or 3 pages on each film but Hostel earned a full 10 page rant I hated it so much. I'm with you on Burn After Reading too. They haven't made a bad film yet, in my opinion, but it was a light one. Just sort of a fun quicky to shirk any high expectations after their Oscar win. Really looking forward to A Serious Man though. I just watched their mentor's latest, Drag Me to Hell. Kinda fun but I just did not like the leads at all. The girl's comic delivery was awful and that Mac guy gets on my nerves. Nice Comment—deal with it, old man! :) People make the weirdest arguments around here. I was biting my tongue but I'm glad you were able to land some satire. :) Doctor Sunshine (talk) 01:15, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, the hillbilly back-flip: I thought "Oh" when that happened. Glad I hadn't heard about it before-hand, or it wouldn't have even elicited that profound response out of me. The "nigger" joke was pretty damned lame too... Oh, one other thing-- Someone needs to inform Roth that the shock-value of the word "fuck" wore out about 35 fuckin' years ago. If you're going to fuckin' use the word gratuitously, you've got to do it with a little fuckin' style, some fuckin' panache, like the fuckin' Coen Brothers do... You know, I can't think of a single Coen movie I wouldn't want to watch at any time. Can't say that about very many directors. A Serious Man didn't come to the little cheapo theater that my family and I frequent, so I'll have to wait for it on DVD... Satire? I'm チompletely serious! I mean if the チonチept of "チonsensus", チan be transferred from チollaborative artiチle-writing (whiチh was the original purpose, as far as I チan tell) to writing rules about writing artiチles, then on to rules about how to write an enチyチlopedia... and then go on to re-designing the English language for the appliチation of those rules... well the logiチal next step is getting "チonsensus" to design our own alphabet. So, goodbye alphabet, hello Wiki-bet: Here's your チhanチe to get in on the ground floor! it oチチurs to me though that we probably want different チharaチters for "C" when it sounds like "K", and when it sounds like "S" and when it sounds like "Ch"... Maybe we should start a request for チomment on it... ;) Dekkappai (talk) 16:08, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

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Aspersions on your character

Hi Doc. I hope your wiki-break is treating you well. Just thought you should hear: There's some clown going under a mildly obscene Japanese username casting aspersions on your fine article Branded to Kill HERE. Just to let you know-- no insult intended on that fine article :) Dekkappai (talk) 00:17, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

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Orphaned non-free media (File:Applause DVD.jpg)

Thanks for uploading File:Applause DVD.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Hazard-Bot (talk) 04:05, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Mariko Ogawa for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Mariko Ogawa is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mariko Ogawa until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. JoshuSasori (talk) 23:47, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

File:Yasuzo Masumura.jpg listed for deletion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Yasuzo Masumura.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Matanya (talk) 19:31, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Pret a porter French poster.jpg)

Thanks for uploading File:Pret a porter French poster.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Werieth (talk) 12:59, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

An RfC that you may be interested in...

As one of the previous contributors to {{Infobox film}} or as one of the commenters on it's talk page, I would like to inform you that there has been a RfC started on the talk page as to implementation of previously deprecated parameters. Your comments and thoughts on the matter would be welcomed. Happy editing!

This message was sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t • e • c)} 18:27, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Disputed non-free use rationale for File:Fat Girl poster.jpg

Thank you for uploading File:Fat Girl poster.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this file on Wikipedia may not meet the criteria required by Wikipedia:Non-free content. This can be corrected by going to the file description page and adding or clarifying the reason why the file qualifies under this policy. Adding and completing one of the templates available from Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your file is in compliance with Wikipedia policy. Please be aware that a non-free use rationale is not the same as an image copyright tag; descriptions for files used under the non-free content policy require both a copyright tag and a non-free use rationale.

If it is determined that the file does not qualify under the non-free content policy, it might be deleted by an administrator within a few days in accordance with our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions, please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you. Stefan2 (talk) 19:23, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:21, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:When a Woman Ascends the Stairs DVD.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:When a Woman Ascends the Stairs DVD.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:31, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Hanzo the Razor - Sword of Justice.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:Hanzo the Razor - Sword of Justice.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:12, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Hanzo the Razor - The Snare.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:Hanzo the Razor - The Snare.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:13, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Hanzo the Razor - Who's Got the Gold.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:Hanzo the Razor - Who's Got the Gold.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:14, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Women in Red World Contest

Hi. We're into the last five days of the Women in Red World Contest. There's a new bonus prize of $200 worth of books of your choice to win for creating the most new women biographies between 0:00 on the 26th and 23:59 on 30th November. If you've been contributing to the contest, thank you for your support, we've produced over 2000 articles. If you haven't contributed yet, we would appreciate you taking the time to add entries to our articles achievements list by the end of the month. Thank you, and if participating, good luck with the finale!

Proposed deletion of File:Black Sun The Warped Ones soundtrack.jpg

The file File:Black Sun The Warped Ones soundtrack.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Non-free album cover being used in a decorative manner in The Warped Ones#Soundtrack. Non-free album cover art is generally allowed to be used for primary identification purposes in stand-alone articles about albums, but its use in other articles is generally only allowed when the cover art itself is the subject of sourced critical commentary as explained in WP:NFC#cite_note-3 and the context for non-free use required by WP:NFCC#8 is evident. There is no such commentary for this particular album cover anywhere in the article, and the use of soundtrack album cover art in articles about films or TV programs is generally not allowed for this reason as explained in WP:FILMSCORE

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated files}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated files}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:23, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Branded to Kill soundtrack.jpg

The file File:Branded to Kill soundtrack.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Non-free album cover being used in a decorative manner in Branded to Kill#Soundtrack. Non-free album cover art is generally allowed to be used for primary identification purposes in stand-alone articles about albums, but its use in other articles is generally only allowed when the cover art itself is the subject of sourced critical commentary as explained in WP:NFC#cite_note-3 and the context for non-free use required by WP:NFCC#8 is evident. There is no such commentary for this particular album cover anywhere in the article, and the use of soundtrack album cover art in articles about films or TV programs is generally not allowed for this reason as explained in WP:FILMSCORE

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated files}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated files}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:36, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Everything Goes Wrong soundtrack.jpg

The file File:Everything Goes Wrong soundtrack.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Non-free album cover being used in a decorative manner in Everything Goes Wrong#Soundtrack. Non-free album cover art is generally allowed to be used for primary identification purposes in stand-alone articles about albums, but its use in other articles is generally only allowed when the cover art itself is the subject of sourced critical commentary as explained in WP:NFC#cite_note-3 and the context for non-free use required by WP:NFCC#8 is evident. There is no such commentary for this particular album cover anywhere in the article, and the use of soundtrack album cover art in articles about films or TV programs is generally not allowed for this reason as explained in WP:FILMSCORE.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated files}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated files}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:54, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Nomination of List of Eclipse releases for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of Eclipse releases is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Eclipse releases until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. --woodensuperman 12:30, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:The Story of PuPu ad card.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:The Story of PuPu ad card.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 19:29, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Category:Yakuza films has been nominated for renaming

Category:Yakuza films has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. DonIago (talk) 19:27, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Hyakken Uchida.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:Hyakken Uchida.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:25, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Juzo Itami.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:Juzo Itami.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 02:20, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Lists of films by home video label

A tag has been placed on Category:Lists of films by home video label indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:45, 14 August 2023 (UTC)