Richard Tennant

Tramp to Queen by John Treasure Jones & Richard J. Tennant additions

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Hello Hu12 Thank you for your comments.

You have correctly noted that am close to the subject of the article, Capt. John Treasure Jones who, as you will see, died in 1993. In 2004 I discovered his typed text of what turned out to be an autobiography. Having collected photographs and illustrations, as well as background data for the appendices, I had it published in 2008 and am credited as the editor ( Richard J. Tennant, as you have traced ), although very little 'editing' was required.

The book is now out-of-print. It was virtually out-of-stock with the publishers three months ago, until a small batch were returned from the trade from being 'on consignment'.

I have read your various policies and I can appreciate that including the name of the book under 'Further Reading' could well be construed as promoting the book. As such, it should probably be deleted from here. Would it be any better under 'References' ?

As far as the rest of the article, and the other edits I have made, are concerned, I believe that I have maintained your standards for 'lack of biase', but am obviously open to correction.

Finally, I have 3 photographs of John Treasure Jones at various stages in his maritime life. These would fit within the 3 sections of the article as they are of 1923, 1943 and 1965. Would it be appropriate to include these and, if so, when would I have the clearance to do so ?

I look forward to reading your reactions. Richard Tennant (talk) 16:32, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:Capt. John Treasure Jones.jpg

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Capt. John Treasure Jones.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree files because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the file description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Bulwersator (talk) 07:35, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi Bulwersator
This is a photograph stamped on the back as being by a photographer, William G Wooldridge of 2 Roberts Road, Southampton and would have been produced for press/publicity purposes by the Cunard Line.
The photogrpah is undated but it would appear to be be in the early 1960's. Considering the events of the Captain's life around this time, it is almost certainly from 1962, when he was promoted to the higher-profile position of Master of the cruise liner RMS Mauretania. Three years later he would have command of the Queens, Elizabeth & Mary
I have made several searches and been unable to trace any record of Mr Wooldridge or his business; it certainly no longer exists in Southampton or the surrounding area. The property at this address was previously solely residential and has since been redeveloped. It is probable that he ran his business activity as a freelance photographer from home.
Capt Treasure Jones had a small stock of these photographs in his archives and I am aware that he distributed several of them to his grandchildren.
I would very much prefer, if possible, not to have this photograph deleted. Thank you Richard Tennant (talk) 15:52, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

PS. If required, I could contact the Liverpool Daily Post to enquire whether they have a copy of the photograph in their archives, which should be an indication that it is in the public domain Richard Tennant (talk) 09:52, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:The British Rocket Brigade at Leipzig 1813.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:The British Rocket Brigade at Leipzig 1813.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Nick⁠—⁠^Contact/_Contribs 18:04, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Hello Nick. I am in 'confusion-land' again!! When I look through the details supplied on the Summary - Media data and Non-free use rationale I thought that I had submitted sufficient 'fair use rationale'. David Rowlands the artist/owner is perfectly happy for the image to be used - his email today :
"Hello Richard, I give my permission to use it, as long as the image is accompanied with the by-line: Artist, David Rowlands (copyright). Of course it needs to be in a fairly medium or low resolution to stop people copying it & enlarging to reproduce it for commercial reasons. Best wishes, David Rowlands"
However, reading all the clauses again, it is obvious that he has not given permission to release it under a free license. It is a pity, since it really 'adds a punch' to the article. Never mind, the painting is used on a link in the references. Thanks for your help. Richard Tennant (talk) 20:19, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

File:Capt. John Treasure Jones.jpg listed for deletion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Capt. John Treasure Jones.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Stefan2 (talk) 20:17, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Also: Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2015 October 10#John Treasure Jones. --Stefan2 (talk) 20:27, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Stefan.
I have read your 'chapter & verse' statements on the discussion page. Basically you are stating that ″we don't need three different pictures in the same article″ and that ″At most one of them can be kept″. I suppose that if regrettably only one can be retained, then I would think that this should be File:Commander RNR RD 1943.
You state that there is missing evidence that WP:NFCC#4 is satisfied.
Previous publication. Non-free content must be a work which has been published or publicly displayed outside Wikipedia by (or with permission from) the copyright holder, or a derivative of such a work created by a Wikipedia editor.
Both of these images have been published in his autobiography “Tramp to Queen” - see Further Reading - for which I hold the copyright.
I do not understand how WP:NFCC#9 is additionally violated.
Richard Tennant (talk) 17:52, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use File:The British Rocket Brigade at Leipzig 1813.jpg

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Hello again Stefan - you have had a busy Saturday !
Over the years I have done a lot of research into Congreve rockets and also spent a lot of effort in trying to find a similar image which correctly shows how it should be deployed. As I stated in the Purpose of use in article Other images in the article depict rockets being fired from boats, which was not particularly successful (eg Fort McHenry). This painting shows their most important and effective use throughout their history. All other images show it being used, as an American would say, ″like a 4th July firework″.
In an article which purports to present serious military historical research, I believe that this image is essential.
As mentioned in the Sourece description, the artist of this painting makes some income from selling prints of it. OK, I could create new media myself by taking my own photograph of it - however, having previously been in contact with the painter and obtained his permission for its use under copyright, I feel that this would be a breach of his trust.
Richard Tennant (talk) 17:52, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Hello again Stefan.
I have been in contact with the artist of this painting, David Rowlands.
The previous image was medium resolution and he wanted it to be copyright protected. He is now quite happy to have a lower resolution image (which he has supplied me with)included under 'free licence', on the basis that this would deter people from downloading and enlarging to reproduce it for commercial gain. Obviously he would want the image to be accredited to him.
Would this be acceptable to you ?
Richard Tennant (talk) 14:48, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:The Rocket Brigade at Leipzig.jpeg

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License tagging for File:Diorama and display of Waterloo medals v1.jpg

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License tagging for File:RGJM - museum front.jpg

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Non-free image rationales

Replied here rather than at WP:MCQ.

Take a look at File:British Army roadblock 1988.jpg, you'll see there is a large template in blue headed "Fair Use Rationale for Operation Banner". You need to copy that template but change the article to Royal Green Jackets Museum. The difficult bit is "purpose of use". Here you have to explain how a non-free image adds significantly to the understanding of the article and as importantly why the absence of the image decreases understanding i.e. you can't add a non-free image just because it looks nice. As there must be numerous images of army checkpoints in Northern Ireland, some of which must be public domain (free) images then justifying this particular one is an uphill stuggle - especially if the soldiers in it are not RGJ.

The cap badge should be easier, the same template is needed but here the justification is about it being used a the museum logo (I hope). If not it's the same argument about context. As someone else has mentioned at WP:MCQ very few images are essential so the cap badge of the regiment is probably more important on the article about the regiment rather than the museum.

On a wider point, you've added quite a gallery to the article and while these are all free images the relevance of each to the article is debatable as none of them are expressly pictures of the regiment but rather images relating to campaigns and battles the regiment has participated in (exception, the Horsa gliders at Pegasus Bridge). The only other two images that are directly related File:RGJM - museum front.jpg and File:Diorama and display of Waterloo medals v1.jpg are both incompletely licenced. Neither states the original author and just because they are held by the museum does not necessarily make it permissible for a trustee of the museum (i.e. you) to place them into the public domain which is what you are doing unless it can be proven that the copyright holder passed the copyright onto the museum. Neither does either photo contain a statement as to how the images are licenced, I suspect you mean a Creative Commons license but both images lack the degree of precision required. It would be far easier to take your camera, take new pictures of he museum and the diorama and upload them as your own work - which is something that undoubtedly you can licence.

I'm sorry that all this sounds rather heavy when all you want to do is write about the museum but the image use policies have to be detailed and adherence to them rigorous to protect the rights of the copyright holder as well as protecting Wikipedia and re-users of content from allegations of copyright breach (As an example a German court is handing out seriously large fines - several thousand of euros - against people who re-use public domain items without the proper attribution). That is why it is vital that images are used and labelled correctly. Nthep (talk) 22:33, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the full reply.

I take your point on "you can't add a non-free image just because it looks nice".

I accept that any images relating to The Troubles in Northern Ireland, Operation Banner & Bloody Sunday do not add significantly to the understanding of the article - the links within the text should be sufficient.

The badge of the regiment was mounted on the black cross-belts worn by the officers and on the caps of the other ranks. Being a Rifle regiment in the British Army they did not have 'colours'. The cap badge of the RGJ is equally the museum logo - it is carved in stone on the outside of the museum (see Trip Advisor), on the museum headed paper and on the email of the curator. It is equally important to the regimental museum as it was to the regiment.
I will have a go at the justification, etc. If it fails on this particular image, then the museum can provide another, since one appears on the webpage for the shop.
Once accepted, would you recommend that it go back into the 'Info box' or be placed elsewhere on the page ?

With the images of the museum front and the diorama / medals, I had previously added "Attribution 3.0 license" to the image descriptions - as instructed previously. I have now added the name of the author, who the museum uses for photographic work. Being a retired officer he obviously does this without charge. Even so, the museum will be obtaining a written statement from him that he has donated both the images, as well as the copyrights associated with them, to the museum.
Is there anything else that needs to be added here?
Richard Tennant (talk) 16:42, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

To deal with the last point first, I have updated both image files in line with what you have said. For belt and braces please ask Major Pearson to email Wikipedia as outlines at Wikipedia:Declaration of consent for all enquiries, this will generate the unequivocal permissions.

Regarding the cap badge it doesn't matter whether you add the rationale to the existing file or upload a new one, it is the rationale that counts. As the museum uses the cap badge as it's logo, describing it as such should be enough. I'll have a look when you've had a go and feedback to you accordingly. Nthep (talk) 18:11, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

on 23 June the museum has provided a Letter of Consent from the original copyright holder to state that he has passed the copyright onto the museum for images File:RGJM - museum front.jpg and File:Diorama and display of Waterloo medals v1.jpg. I believe that by doing so they are now correctly licenced.
We now have confirmation from Paulo Santos Perneta (an administrator in Commons, but not in the English Wikipedia) that he has moved the files to Wikimedia Commons and have made the necessary modifications to the file page. They are now available at : https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Royal_Green_Jackets_Museum
I believe that this now rounds off all the issues relating to this page? Richard Tennant (talk) 09:28, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

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File:HMS_ALISMA,_BRITISH_FLOWER_CLASS_CORVETTE._22_APRIL_1942.jpg

Hi ww2censor. Thanks for your prompt response. Point taken! I have noted that the image A8492 was uploaded by user Fæ (talk | contribs) on 10 October 2017 together with all the official-looking panels.
However this upload of image A8491 is still displaying panels indicating that it could be deleted with one week. Before now including it in the page HMS Alisma (K185) I would like to be confident that it will not be then deleted.
Can these panels be replaced by those used on image File:HMS ALISMA, BRITISH FLOWER CLASS CORVETTE. 22 APRIL 1942, LIVERPOOL. A8492.jpg? Richard Tennant (talk) 11:22, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

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Christopher Wallace

I see that in 2016 you added the words "where he was also head boy" to the article on Christopher Wallace. I have removed these words because I knew him well in 1956-1957 (we were in the same class), and less well in the next four years, and I have no recollection that he was ever head boy. I could be wrong, of course, and if there is evidence for the statement it can go back. (Unfortunately my school lists from 1956 to 1961 have gone missing, so I can't check.) Athel cb (talk) 16:49, 21 January 2023 (UTC)