Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/AJ Inia

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus to delete. There is no consensus to delete, a reasonable argument for sources showing a unique basis for notability, and little likelihood that relisting will result in a different outcome, given additions to the article over the course of the discussion. BD2412 T 20:35, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

AJ Inia

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 21:11, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Oceania. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 21:11, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I did see a couple of hits under the name Ata Inia, but nothing that's significant coverage yet. Best source is probably [1]. I would have expected that being the first professional Tongan soccer player would generate more coverage. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:19, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I may go ahead and add a couple of facts and sources to the article so it's clear what the story is, but it appears he's never actually played for Tonga (on the national team), and there doesn't appear to be that much about his club performance to date (except for a long Q&A interview when he first arrived in Cambodia), so at best this looks like a candidate to draftify (rather than keep). When he started playing in Cambodia, the Tonga FA publicly congratulated him (thus accepting / confirming that he was the first Tongan to play professionally), but at the end of 2020 he was still in the process of applying for dual citizenship. (He's Australian.) So Matangi Tonga Online focuses on his background rather than on him as an athlete and some of this is probably TMI for a BLP. (Maybe there is more written in Khmer or Thai? Might be worth also posting to the applicable Deletion sorting project for football in Asia / SE Asia.) Cielquiparle (talk) 11:31, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Another Australian who (unlike Inia) has actually played for Tonga but appears not to have been signed by any professional club to date is Mohammad Rajani (per Oceania Football). Cielquiparle (talk) 07:37, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In October 2021, FTBL.com.au had Ata Inia down as "an unused sub once for Angkor Tiger FC." Cielquiparle (talk) 08:04, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Side note is that this claim on FTBL.com.au is very likely false and misleading. Ata appeared and scored goals on July 12, 2021 (per Angkor Tiger FC on Facebook) and on November 13, 2021, and there could have been more (and the infobox suggests he had a total of 19 appearances although I'm not sure how we know that). Cielquiparle (talk) 04:07, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify as Draft:Ata Inia rather than AJ Inia. So yes, there is coverage in national newspapers in Tonga and Cambodia about becoming Tonga's first professional footballer, but it seems like this is still a story that is waiting to happen since he hasn't quite started playing for Tonga yet. If there is additional coverage once he starts playing for Tonga, we'll be ready with a nice draft article. Cielquiparle (talk) 08:39, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 19:28, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I believe there is sufficient sourcing to meet GNG. Giant Snowman 19:41, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I looked at the article and I think there is enough sources for WP:GNG and he is the first and only pro Tongan footballer ever. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 20:54, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - notable because he is the first Tongan pro footballer, and article is well-referenced. passes GNG. --IdiotSavant (talk) 00:13, 25 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or Draftfy. Fails WP:GNG due to lack of significant coverage. The sources in the article are routine transfer news, primary sources or a Q&A interviews. Alvaldi (talk) 16:56, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify per Alvaldi.4meter4 (talk) 19:23, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I count 1 source in the article that is independent and significant. I'm not sure about reliable, but I am willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. Find 2 more like the first source listed and I will change to keep. Currently the only source that isn't either self-produced puffery or churn is the first source. I suppose draftification is acceptable. Rockphed (talk) 05:09, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I believe Rockphed is referring to the article in Khmer Times as one article that is independent and significant enough. I would argue that the article in Matangi Tonga is also independent and significant, because it investigates the question, "OK, but what is Ata Inia's actual connection to Tonga?" For those who do not have a subscription to Matangi Tonga, a national newspaper in Tonga, the article outline is as follows:

Khmer Times is reporting that Ata Inia is "Tonga's first professional soccer player
Ata has joined Angkor Tiger in Cambodia after 2 years with Melbourne Knights in Australia
Angkor Tiger finished 7th in Cambodia's top league (this information doesn't appear in the other article)
The Tonga Football Association has publicly congratulated Ata
Ata's father's father was Tongan; his father's mother was Australian; he was named after his grandfather (this information appears in none of the other sources)
Ata really wants to play for Tonga, as verified with the manager of the Tonga national women's team
The national women's team manager confirmed that Tonga FA was in touch with Ata, but the reason he had not yet formally joined them yet was because he still had to sort out his dual citizenship issues

My hesitation with this is that both this article, the big English article in Khmer Times, and the one in the Khmer language (SBM News), are all focused on the 1 event of Inia's signing / transfer news (as noted by Alvadi). The entire section on his "International career" consists of: "I almost played for Australia U-23" and "I hope to play for Tonga someday"; so reads very much like WP:TOOSOON to me. Cielquiparle (talk) 14:36, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per others. Urban Versis 32^KB ⚡ ^{(talk | contribs)} 19:27, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep OK fine, changing vote in light of the fact that there aren't that many athletes from Oceania who have this much focused coverage in multiple national publications; I guess he always will be "Tonga's first professional footballer". I hope he gets to play for Tonga someday. Cielquiparle (talk) 20:05, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've also further expanded the section on Ata Inia's club career, citing 2 additional Khmer Times articles (which are not enough to establish notability but certainly do help to paint a more complete picture of how the 2021 season in Cambodia went for him). Cielquiparle (talk) 05:11, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep - as first Tongan football player. TimTempleton ^(talk) ^(cont) 21:32, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - as first football player from Tonga. I added one source. The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 00:50, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Notability is established by in-depth national newspaper coverage in Cambodia (Khmer Times and SBM News) and in Tonga (Matangi Tonga). In this particular case, the reason for my initial hesitation was that all of this coverage focused mainly on 1 event, which was Inia's signing with Angkor Tiger, although it did also cover information about his family background, and past history as a player. However, the addition of two additional articles from Khmer Times, particularly the one covering Inia's first goal scored in Cambodia (13 July 2021), helps to overcome the possible WP:BLP1E issue; even if it is "routine game coverage", he features prominently in it and it establishes that he wasn't only "notable" on the day he signed with the club. Some of us may wish that Inia had actually played for the Tonga national men's team already, but that is arguably WP:IDONTLIKEIT and not a valid objection. Side note is that the Oceania Football Center blog post featuring an interview with Inia does not count toward notability and we don't even need to cite it given that it doesn't really add any new information, but I'm leaving it in for now, mainly because otherwise other people will keep adding it back in (I already removed it once before). Cielquiparle (talk) 11:25, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The khmertimeskh.com story covering his first goal scored in Cambodia briefly mentions him in two lines and does not constitute as a significant coverage. The "Tonga’s first professional footballer joins Angkor Tiger" story, also from khmertimeskh.com, is significant and the similar story from Matangi Tonga online might me, although its locked behind a paywall so I can't assess that. The SBM News source, outside of it not really being significant, constitutes mostly of comments from his coach so it is not independent of the subject either. All three stories are from a span of three days and such a brief bursts of news coverage that fails WP:SUSTAINED. In my opinion, the subject needs to been shown to have significant coverage over a longer period of time. Alvaldi (talk) 11:44, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that more "significant" coverage over a longer period of time would have been preferable. I agree that the "first goal in Cambodia" article in Khmer Times wouldn't count toward notability on its own, although I would also point out that it prominently features his photograph and caption. Another article I've just added from Star Weekly in Melbourne in 2019 with four sentences about Inia's performance during an otherwise routine match including speculation about his "bright future" plus a quote from his player-manager is also probably not significant enough to count toward notability on its own, but it is definitely more than just a passing mention. In aggregate, I think there is just enough evidence of "sustained" coverage (even if it's not all "significant" feature coverage for notability) to get this article over the line. For me this is why I'm finally OK with this as a "weak keep" after much initial hesitation. (Also, this has been an extremely challenging bio to research given all the different languages and geographies within Oceania and Asia which have to be searched separately; I'm surprised at how much more I find every time I look, and I have been looking for quite some time trying to get a clear answer.) Cielquiparle (talk) 12:44, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.