Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Fraternities and Sororities

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Scope of the Project, Notability Rules (clarification), and Syntax for the Watchlist are linked here: Watchlist Talk Page. A discussion on the types of chapter status is here: F&S Project talk page, Archive #7.

Redlinked universities and colleges

I have updated the master list of institutions that are red-linked in chapter lists for fraternities, sororities, honor societies, and other groups covered by our WP. This list is alphabetical by school name and includes all known associated groups in that single entry. There are also some sources to aid in creating articles for these redlinks, as identified by various editors. Items can be removed from the list, once an article is created. Rublamb (talk) 00:14, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Substandard chapter lists

This is a working list of articles with substandard or missing chapter lists, which merit the attention of Project editors. For examples of lists, see List of Zeta Psi chapters, List of Beta Theta Pi chapters or the Alpha Delta Phi Society. If you are working on an article, please indicate below. Strike out when the article is fixed. Jax MN (talk) 21:34, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Note that this list had been much longer; editors have reposted it after removing the completed projects. Jax MN (talk) 19:44, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

• Alpha Delta Mu, needs chapter list
• Alpha Delta Sigma, needs chapter list
• List of Alpha Epsilon Pi chapters, format errors, many missing chapters vs. Baird's, and incorrect dates. Needs revising.
• Alpha Iota, chapter list incomplete, some missing chapters, missing dates. Also, several of its schools are redlinks, to be added to our tracking list. IN PROGRESS Rublamb (talk) 19:36, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
• Alpha Lambda Omega, needs table, locations, status done Rublamb (talk) 00:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
• Alpha Omega Alpha, needs chapter list; see talkpage for help
• Alpha Pi Delta, needs chapter list
• Alpha Sigma Mu, needs chapter list
• List of Alpha Tau Omega chapters, formatting, needs end dates
• Alpha Upsilon Alpha, needs table, missing dates and status
• Beta Kappa Chi, needs chapter list
• Beta Sigma, missing chapters
• Beta Sigma Omega Phi, needs table
• Beta Sigma Phi, needs chapter list; more than 5,000 chapters but are listed on its website
• List of Cum Laude Society chapters, merge state lists into table, add locations and status
• Delta Epsilon Iota, needs chapter list (I have started it)
• Delta Epsilon Psi, needs table, missing location, dates, status done Rublamb (talk) 04:17, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
• Delta Kappa Gamma, needed list, needs better citations
• Delta Sigma Delta, needs notes converted to efn, missing international and graduate chapters, needs better citations
• List of Delta Sigma Phi chapters, some cleanup needed; addition of date ranges from Baird's. Some chapters with Tau in their names should carry an EFN, noting that the use of "Tau" stems from placement in Michigan, and thus may have been awarded outside of the standard naming order. Not yet a reference column for sources.
• Delta Sigma Theta collegiate, needs date templates
• Delta Theta Phi, needs status, formatting of chapter names, etc.
• Delta Theta Tau, needs list, needs better citations
• Epsilon Pi Phi, needs table, incomplete list, missing details
• Epsilon Sigma Alpha, needs table, missing dates, chapter names, most chapters
• Estonian Students' Society, needs table, missing inactive chapters and many details
• Eta Sigma Delta, missing data, needs table
• Gamma Phi, need chapter list
• Gamma Sigma, needs chapter list
• Gamma Sigma Alpha, needs chapter list
• List of Gamma Sigma Sigma chapters, list needs cleanup, reordering, bold/italics, and chapter location fields.
• Golden Key International Honour Society, needs chapter list
• Iota Phi Lambda, needs list
• List of Kappa Alpha Psi chapters, has several lists that need to be merged, data moved from table to efn, and needs date range for inactive chapters
• Kappa Delta Pi, needs chapter list
• List of Kappa Kappa Gamma chapters, needs formatting. Combine Canadian and US lists, add Ref and Notes columns, needs better references
• Lambda Alpha, needs a chapter list, missing charter dates, and need to be arranged in charter order
• Lambda Alpha Upsilon, some missing fields, and non-standard styling for the Active/inactive column.
• Lambda Beta, needs chapter list
• List of Lambda Chi Alpha chapters, move notes to efn, moved inactive dates from notes to dates columns
• Lambda Pi Eta, needs chapter list
• National Residence Hall Honorary, needs chapter list
• National Society of Blackjacks, needs table, missing some details done Rublamb (talk) 22:38, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
• List of Omega Psi Phi chapters, the format of active/inactive chapters, merge tables, end dates missing, move comments to efn, split graduate and collegiate chapters
• Omega Rho, needs chapter list and table.
• Pershing Rifles, needs table, missing chapters, missing some data done Rublamb (talk) 01:28, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
• Phi Alpha (honor society), needs chapter list
• Phi Alpha Delta, chapter list neeed
• List of Phi Beta Sigma chapters, merge lists, add regions to the table, move table notes to efn, add end dates for inactive chapters
• Phi Delta Kappa, needs inactive chapters and dates
• Phi Delta Kappa (sorority), needs dates, updates to status
• Phi Delta Phi, needs a table, completion of the chapter list, various info
• Phi Epsilon Kappa, needs a table, missing data done Rublamb (talk) 22:44, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
• List of Phi Iota Alpha chapters, format, needs dates
• Phi Kappa (Catholic fraternity), order of columns, move text citations to efn, etc. done Rublamb (talk) 01:28, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
• List of Phi Kappa Tau chapters, needs a table, spelling out chapter names, needs better citations
• List of Phi Kappa Theta chapters, put in charter order
• Phi Mu Delta, needs table, dates, merge districts (can add a district column)
• Phi Sigma Nu, needs some list cleanup, with new provisional chapters. Minor.
• Phi Sigma Phi, needs a table, move comments from references to efn, needs better references
• Phi Tau Phi, needs chapter list
• Phi Tau Sigma, needs table, missing details
• Phi Upsilon Omicron, needs chapter list
• Phrateres, non standard presentation of data, cleanup
• Pi Kappa Delta, needs chapter list
• List of Pi Lambda Phi chapters, merge state tables, format and order
• Pi Sigma Epsilon, the table should be updated. Status, bold/italic, ref column.
• List of Psi Omega chapters, cleanup of status column
• List of Psi Upsilon chapters, needs list table; missing many fields/ May need to split the co-ed group into a separate table; this organization operates under one HQ., needs better citations
• Sigma Alpha, needs a table, missing some information, needs more references
• Sigma Alpha Epsilon Pi, some inconsistencies in the chapter list.
• Sigma Alpha Iota, needs a table and added content, needs better sources
• Sigma Alpha Lambda, needs table, missing data
• List of Sigma Alpha Mu chapters, format, missing data
• Sigma Delta Alpha, non-standard table
• Sigma Gamma Tau, needs table, merge various lists, added dates and status, needs sources
• Sigma Iota, missing details
• Sigma Iota Alpha, some formatting problems, esp. Tau chapter.
• Sigma Lambda Upsilon, needs list table; missing many fields, needs better references
• List of Sigma Phi Delta chapters, needs efn created from ref and column text, no references
• List of Sigma Phi Epsilon chapters, non-standard table, apparently some lingering vandalism on chapter #s.
• List of Sigma Pi chapters, exhibits recent good-faith but non-standard edits. The promotional top section, "100 man chapters", if retained, should be moved down. Bold and italics should be added, needs better references
• List of Sigma Tau chapters, City State needs to be fixed
• List of Sigma Xi chapters, needs list and table. done Rublamb (talk) 20:28, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
• SPURS National Honor Society, needs locations, missing some chapters and data
• Swing Phi Swing, needs table, missing some data and inactive chapters
• Tau Sigma, lacks chapter list; I contacted national on 2/21/2024 Rublamb (talk) 19:04, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
• Tau Sigma Delta, needs table, additional detail
• Theta Nu Epsilon, needs table, location and status columns
• Theta Sigma Phi, now Assn for Women in Communications), needs a list table, and multiple fields.
• Upsilon Pi Epsilon, needs chapter list, needs chapter names and charter dates Done but still missing some chapter names and charter dates Rublamb (talk) 05:15, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Rublamb (talk) 07:47, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Substandard lists of notable members

This is a working list of articles with substandard, bloated or missing lists of notable members, which merit the attention of Project editors. For examples of lists, see List of Alpha Omicron Pi members or List of Alpha Delta Phi members, though each of these could be expanded with a chapter location field. As another example, Phi Kappa Theta does a nice job with their notable members list, with the addition of some color title lines. We may opt to use this styling as a way of breaking up a wall of text.

Standard content for a member list is name, chapter and initiation year, notability, and references. Long list are usually divided into careers such as academia, art and architecture, business, entertainment, government (non-political) law, literature and journalism, military, politics, religion, science and medicine, technology, and sports.

If you are working on an article, please indicate below. Strike out when the article is fixed.

To avoid vanity listings, on these page's Talk pages, it would be helpful to add a list of rules for inclusion, as discussed here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Fraternities_and_Sororities/Archive_6#Notable_members_2. Jax MN (talk) 17:55, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Many GLO member lists are simple lists of names. This is just a start.

• List of Alpha Delta Phi members, needs a location field (to clarify, does each line need a location of that chapter? or skip this?)
• List of Alpha Omicron Pi members, needs a location field (to clarify, does each line need a location of that chapter? or skip this?)
• List of Acacia members, alphabetize lists by last name, alphabetize sections, needs references
• Delta Zeta, inset list of names, ought to merit a list article with table.
• List of Eta Kappa Nu members, simple list, few references, needs chapters and locations. As a point of clarification, for honor societies that award membership as honoraries (~mid-career) it seems we should simply note that they are an honorary member of the national society if they were not initiated into a specific chapter.
• List of Sigma Alpha Epsilon members, needs table(s), needs references

Cleanup project

The main list of infobox issues can be found at Category:Fraternity articles with infobox fraternity issues.

I have these here from other discussions so they are easier to find:

1. "| coat of arms or "| crest" where "| image_size" is null or missing. (The size parameter is manually adjusted, depending on actual image size.) - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing image size (26) --Done. Note that I downsized somewhat the crests and other infobox graphics, too many of which had crept so large that they were inadvertently expanding the infobox width. Of course, if someone wants to see a larger image of the crest, they can click on it, or go to the original source. Flag images are now typically 120px, and member badges appear about the size of an actual badge, or maybe up to 20% larger. Jax MN (talk) 22:35, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
2. "| founded" where the tag structure "{{Start date and age|yyyy|mm|dd}}" is NOT used - tracked at petscan DONE
3. missing |affiliation= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing affiliation (1)
4. missing |type= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing type (1)
5. missing |scope= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing scope (1)
6. missing |member badge= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing member badge (784)
7. missing |chapters= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing chapters (17)
8. missing |members= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing members (729)
9. missing |website= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing website (115)
10. Missing short descriptions. - tracked at petscan DONE
11. Orphans - via WP Orphanage search and petscan DONE
12. missing |status= - Category:Pages using infobox fraternity with missing status (3)
13. Article name does not match infobox - DONE
14. Missing infobox - DONE, if had WP F&S Rublamb (talk) 00:42, 29 June 2024 (UTC)}
15. Missing country
16. Unreferenced - working list pulled and shared in a new section below 29 June 2024
17. Notability - working list pulled and shared in a new section below 29 June 2024
18. Primary sources - tracked at petscan
19. One source - working list pulled and shared in a new section below 29 June 2024
20. Has bibliography but lacks inline citations - tracked at petscan
21. Needs color boxes (Helpful link, has colors, flags and, addresses of Baltic, Scandinavian, German, and Polish fraternities)

• A.V. Turicia - done

Rublamb (talk) 01:16, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Fraternities and Soroities Guideline

Is it possible to make a comprehensive guideline article for how a standard fraternity or sorority page should look? I've found Wikipedia:College_and_university_article_advice to be incredibly helpful. Of course each page would have a level of uniqueness to it, but just as any university there are some standard characteristics that should be recommended.

Please let me know if I am missing something on the project page, but I currently do not find the templates section to be sufficient. Pancake621 (talk) 18:53, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi Pancake621. I note you recently joined the Project. We welcome you. Reading your question above I was intrigued to note the support document for college and university articles, originally written back in 2007. I'm sure it has been heavily used. It was thus a factor in the decade when most of those articles were created. We could certainly use it for our efforts to finish writing articles about dormant schools. Meanwhile, as to your query about a similar style and syntax guide for fraternity and sorority articles, while we may have benefited from such, years ago, alas, I don't know that anyone ever created a similar guide. However, much of the direction you seek is here in the archived TALK pages of this Project page, with a few key items pinned to the top. We track substandard chapter list pages, missing school pages, and discuss the details of stylistic points here. Several of the most active project editors operate with a strong consensus gained from these earlier discussions, but that doesn't really help you if you don't have a ready-reference.

Because this is 2024, and many of the GLO articles are much advanced from their origin as stubs, and the many list pages we track are quite improved from fifteen years ago, I'm less inclined to write this document. However, many points from our archived discussions could be summarized or hyperlinked to quickly form the framework of a new guidance article. Are you interested in working on it?

Yours was a fair question, and I realize that, had we had such a document a decade ago when I was beginning to work on these articles, perhaps we could have corralled other new editors to the Project, and maybe avoided various AfD battles. A guideline like this would have been a solid framework for consensus. Still, we're far more organized and these articles have been much improved over the past decade. Jax MN (talk) 19:07, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the welcome!

I'd be happy to help refine a draft! I feel as tho I am far too new to this WikiProject and wiki-editing in general to create a helpful guideline. (for example, I am a bit unsure of how'd to create that page on the backend for everyone to access).

I also agree that many articles seem to be beyond an original draft, but I've still used them to improve start- or c-class articles for the university wikiproject. I also think it would be good to have a reference for people looking to improve their own organization's page to have some easy to reference guide. Pancake621 (talk) 00:16, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

I think that is a good idea. Although some groups have variations specific to them, there is a format we tend to use. In addition, there a plenty of discussions to pull from where we decided what content to include in a given section or format for content. It is something I keep meaning to draft. Rublamb (talk) 19:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

I'd be happy to help refine a draft! Pancake621 (talk) 00:16, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

I will get to it eventually. Currently working on a bear of a project. Rublamb (talk) 13:23, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Puerto Rico

• I think CIPR (Concilio Interfraternitario de Puerto Rico) even without a page is good as an affiliation and should be before CIPFI.
• the facebook page for Concilio Interfraternitario de Puerto Rico actually lists the Wikipedia template (Template:Concilio Interfraternitario de Puerto Rico as their website. I don't know if this is AI guessing or not.Naraht (talk) 17:49, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
• There are articles from El Mundo (Puerto Rico) indicating it was founded in August 29, 1958 and a few other from its initial founding. I created the CIPFI article way back then since it was the one I could find information for. El Johnson (talk) 13:18, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Eljohnson15 Anything you can find would be useful. I'd really like to have enough to create the CIPR page (or have someone else create it, I'm not picky. :) )Naraht (talk) 13:21, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Theta Nu Epsilon?

Hi All,

Was just talking with @Naraht over some deletions I made over at Theta Nu Epsilon. Long story short, about a decade ago a bunch of sockpuppets put a whole bunch of fake history on that page and I'm trying to sort out the legit from the totally bogus. There is a whole talk page about it, but complicating the issue is a bunch of the sockpuppets engage in a fake fight with each other. Anyway any help folks could give in cleaning up the article would be greatly appreciated! Jjazz76 (talk) 20:53, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

The Primary source used for the chapter list that was recently deleted is the one from a website that someone put together, which can https://web.archive.org/web/20150403113708/http://thetanuepsilon.org/13Chaplis/ChapterList.html . Other lists that I have found (mostly by googling "Theta Nu Epsilon" and picked at random from the first list Bowdoin) include https://books.google.com/books?id=xbU0AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA233 and https://books.google.com/books?id=PfDmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA228 . The second although without letters, is from Banta's greek exchange. Note, normally I'd consider Banta's and Baird's as being neutral secondary/tertiary sources for articles about GLOs, but for Theta Nu Epsilon, they would be viewed as *somewhat* antagonistic. Went through my copies of Baird's, and wierdly enough some of the index entries in some editions were screwy, but they best I could do is the 1930s Baird's which had a list of those that were part of the 1925ish reconstruction to be more acceptable as a GLO like those in the NIC (no double membership, etc). This is missing quite a few. For example, *every* source I can find has the chapter list starting Wesleyan, Syracuse, Union, Cornell and Rochester. I'd also suggest editions of the Wesleyan Olla Podrida, for example https://books.google.com/books?id=va8PAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA67 .Naraht (talk) 21:11, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Baird's 20th has a list of 17 chapters. I'd suggest we roll back these edits and begin looking for sources that confirm each of the groups previously listed. Jax MN (talk) 22:09, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate the effort to improve this article but I agree to a rollback is best in this situtation. Some of the recently deleted content appears to have legit sources, such as athe chapter list. If content with a citation is going to be removed, there needs to be documentation as to what was wrong with that source, probably on the article's talk page OR replacement content with a new/better source. If these edits are being made based on personal knowledge and not sources, that falls under original research. Rublamb (talk) 22:24, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Some of the sources, as far as I could tell, didn't exist or were legitimately made up. The archive talk page way at the bottom, from back in 2008 describes the issues further. But again, if folks think I've deleted too much, I'm totally fine with that. Just trying to work on an article that is a bit of a mess. Jjazz76 (talk) 22:35, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

References: Jax MN (talk) 22:46, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for these. I just want to make clear I have no issues with Baird or any of the standard reference volumes. There is also a good NY Times article citation in the article that discusses these 1910s to 1920s issues. But the article as it stood, base on a mid-2000s website, list well over 100 chapters many of which had no documentation in Baird, standard reference volumes, or some of the college newspapers I looked through. Jjazz76 (talk) 22:57, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Good faith, certainly. I found some of the claims to be dubious or worse when I worked on that article. However, after I cleared out some of the chuff, I left the long-ish list of chapters as a breadcrumb trail to help others start their searches for individual chapter references. I also wrote the summary reference (#1, below), which I think is a fair round-up of a couple of sources. I use that language elsewhere, so had copied-and-pasted it from the U of MN list of fraternities on Wikipedia. More broadly, it may be useful in a revision to the TNE article. Others here are better researchers, and we welcome additions to our ranks. I anticipate that the legitimate TNE chapters will surface in one or two references, somewhere. Jax MN (talk) 23:28, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

GLOs rarely show up in campus newspapers after the 1980s unless there is a hazing incident or chapter house fire, so that does not prove or disprove a chapter. Frustratingly, even yearbooks are not accurate in the last quarter of the 20th century. And, since Baird's last edition was in 1992, we would expect there to be a difference between it and an organizational chapter list from the 2000s. A lot can happen in 2000 years! I will see what I can find--just give me a few days to wrap up other projects. Rublamb (talk) 23:56, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

References

Negative issues in lede...

After seeing the change to Alpha Kappa Rho. I'm generally feeling the following way. Negative issues should only be included in the lede if that is the only thing that the group has notability for at all. the only one that I can come up with that fits that is Chi Tau (local) (where I am fine with the current) Naraht (talk) 21:46, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

When I was cleaning up that article, I decided to leave the existing lede content related to violence and gang behavior. I agree it could be tempered but this is relevant here because this is not just a service fraternity. Service fraternities do not require police-led peace accords. IMO, it would be like only mentioning that a Nigerian confraternity is a service organization and ignoring its history of piracy. Even given your suggestion of only including negative content if this is why the group is notable, I believe the only sources for this article that are not primary are about its violent history, making that the only reason the group is notable. Rublamb (talk) 03:00, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Two cents: The lede should be a summary of the article's following paragraphs, distilling in one or two sentences the key points about the society. Indeed, the two examples you mention (three, with mention of the Nigerian group), these three indeed should include the detrimental information in the lede. Jax MN (talk) 08:29, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

@Jax MN, Do you have time to look at Alpha Kappa Rho and restore some mention of the negative content? You are really good a distilling facts into a reasonable amount of content. Rublamb (talk) 13:38, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Rublamb In regards to peace accords, while you have the mention of peace accords in regards to AKRho and Tau Gamma Phi, it is much broader than that. Please take a look at the announcement of the peace accord at Western Mindanao State University ([1]) which covers AKRho, Tau Gamma Phi/Sigma, Alpha Sigma Phi, Alpha Phi Omega, Order of Demolay and others. (And if negative belongs in the lead, Tau Gamma Phi probably also qualifies. (18 hazing deaths in the last 18 years more or less)) Naraht (talk) 14:21, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Rollup of Parameters and values. *VERY USEFUL*

A bot runs every month (current was done on June 1) that has a rollup of all of the values. (https://bambots.brucemyers.com/TemplateParam.php?wiki=enwiki&template=Infobox+fraternity) This was a *lot* of useful information, for example, for the parameter patron roman divinity , you can show links to all of the pages that use it *or* click on the Unique values columns, see how many unique values there are and for each of *them* see what pages they have. One annoying piece of data, I want to track down. 787 pages with the infobox, 787 with type, 787 with scope, and *786* with founded. Which means *one* article doesn't have it.

It is generated monthly, so we won't be able to see our recent changes for a bit, but it *will* be useful. Let me know what you find most useful!Naraht (talk) 03:23, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Another issue: The Bot reports 787 pages with the Infobox fraternity. The List of Articles on the WP landing page only has only 744. If I understand how the List is generated, this means that 43 articles do not have WP Fraternities and Sororities listed on their Talkpage. I will see if I can find these using petscan. (Anything to avoid fixing the issues with Christian fraternities). Rublamb (talk) 15:01, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Petscan found seven. Working on it. Rublamb (talk) 15:30, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

July

Looked at the talk page for the creator of the bambot (User:Bamyers99). It appears that the run with the June 1 data was created on June 9. It processes a generated file from Wikipedia that takes a while to generate. I dropped him a note thanking him and asking if the 9th was about normal. (With these types of generated files, I'd be *very* surprised if it ever came earlier than the 4th).Naraht (talk) 21:13, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

July has been generated. Any additions of suggested/required will not show up until August. I'll take a look at July to see what changes we are looking at.Naraht (talk) 17:14, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

And the work I did yesterday is not reflected. I guess will will need to wait another month to make sure that unwanted fields are truly not in use. But this is still progress. Rublamb (talk) 19:11, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Correct. It is based on the State of the Wikipedia database as of July 1.Naraht (talk) 20:08, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Founded

As of June, there was *one* infobox without founded. *If* the infobox is set so that it is suggested or required, the rollup will show a link so we can see which one is missing. Similarly, I think it could be done on the others that are more than 700, chapters, name, birthplace, and country.Naraht (talk) 01:59, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Or, I was thinking we could use Excel to compare the complete list with the list of items with countries, etc. It has been a while since I have used that feature, but it should yield a list of aritlces lacking whatever component. Rublamb (talk) 05:24, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Found it! Aquinas Honor Society. Working on getting a date, I've found one that places it no later than 1951.Naraht (talk) 15:14, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Great! Rublamb (talk) 15:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

August is up

Exactly 800 with the template. I'll move comments over to Template talk:Infobox FraternityNaraht (talk) 13:08, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Current list: Infobox fraternity/sorority & Notability or No Ref Tag

• Adelphian Society (local Social 40 years, merged into National)
• Aleph Samach (local Honor 80 years, inactive)
• Alpha Beta Psi (2 chapter -> 1 chapter, 45 years)
• Alpha Pi Delta (non-collegiate African American LGBTQ, org website only reference)

Delete: I'm unable to find any other sources. Still can remain on the LGBTQ list article. Rublamb (talk) 01:12, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

• Delta Epsilon Mu (50+ chapter national professional, PFA, *zero* references)
• Delta Sigma Chi (10-15 chapter national professional, PFA, one non-primary reference)sources added Rublamb (talk) 03:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
• Enosinian Society (literary at Geo. Wash., 102 years old, org website is only reference)sources added Rublamb (talk) 01:06, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
• Kappa Alpha Lambda (4 chapter social, *zero* secondary references)
• History of North American fraternities and sororities, had also been off the radar.
• History of the North American fraternity and sorority system, no sources, is this needed?
• Kappa Phi Gamma (20 chapter social, reference to Almanac and one school webpage)
• Kappa Zeta Phi (no secondary references) thin, but now has citations from newspapers and university websites Rublamb (talk) 00:30, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
• Korp! Leola, (Estonian, only one source)
• Korporatsioon Vironia (no sources; references exist in German Wikipedia)
• Mu Epsilon Theta (1 chapter (at one time 5) social, *zero* secondary references)

Delete - I found nothing that was helpful to add. It can be on the list of service and/or religious GLO, but this article should be AfD. Rublamb (talk) 23:03, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

• National Art Honor Society (honorary, no secondary references)
• Omega Pi Lambda (brand new article for local, no sources) another editor moved this to draft. I added its website and the college website but this will not be enough to get it out of draftspace Rublamb (talk) 04:29, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
• Phi Alpha Mu (local social, about 100 years old, one true secondary source)

Delete: Only other sources were mentions of brides or graduates being members. The one secondary source is a local newspaper that basically quotes a member who says it is a local that has existed for 30 years and has 1000 alumni. The bulk of its content is from the group's website. But enough to be included in our list article. Rublamb (talk) 23:50, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

• Phi Sigma Iota (no sources) sources added Rublamb (talk) 23:06, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
• Presidium Convent (no sources)
• Quill and Scroll (no sources but some are available)
• Rotalia (corporation) (Estonian, group's website is only source) source added
• Sigma Alpha Lambda (honorary, *zero* secondary references)
• Sigma Kappa Delta (honorary, org's website is only reference)
• Sigma Pi, Mu Chapter (only one secondary source)

Delete: I cannot find more sources. See discussion below and on the article's talk page. Rublamb (talk) 02:07, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

• Tau Alpha (Philippine one chapter engineering at U of Philippines - Diliman) sources added by RublambNaraht (talk) 22:26, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
• Trident Society removed, references are good enough (local honor society at Duke)
• Upsilon Pi Epsilon (honorary, group website only reference} sources added Rublamb (talk) 00:41, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
• Zeta Mu Gamma (high school GLO; only references is for a notable member. AfD?) DeletedRublamb (talk) 23:11, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
• Wren Society (local honor society @ William & Mary, references needed, but 191 years old, so should be *something*)

Naraht (talk) 15:57, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

@Naraht: can I merge my short list of articles with no sources into this list since the issue is pretty much the same? Rublamb (talk) 19:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Sure. And Tau Alpha needs To be restored to the list reverted my removal. Currently at Talk:Tau Alpha, would appreciate eyes on.Naraht (talk) 19:29, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Done. Rublamb (talk) 23:58, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Undoing edits for 104.60.196.157

This IP user has done nothing but mark chapters of Hispanic/Latino Fraternities as inactive. It is the reason that we (reasonably) marked Tau Phi Sigma as completely inactive. (And I've found at least two chapters of Tau Phi Sigma that had rush weeks in Fall of 2022). Currently left to do (would appreciate help)

• List of Lambda Theta Phi chapters
• List of Phi Iota Alpha chapters
• List of Lambda Sigma Upsilon chapters for this one, they removed refs and apparently just added links to lists of recognized orgs at each school. A mess.
• Delta Xi Phi
• List of Sigma Lambda Beta chapters

Naraht (talk) 17:11, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

New honor society category

WikiObjectivity has created several new categories related to honor societies, including Category:Gold graduation stoles and Category:Blue and Gold Honor Societies. Firstly, do these categories make sense? If so, shouldn't they be subcategories of the honor society category? Rublamb (talk) 01:30, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Honestly, I think it is a reaction to what is occurring with Phi Theta Kappa, to prove that the claims in the lawsuit are unreasonable.Naraht (talk) 13:16, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Since Wikipedia's function is not to support lawsuits, I guess we need to determine the usefulness of these categories and their correct placement in within honor society categories. Rublamb (talk) 13:44, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Update: Category:Gold graduation stoles has been deleted via Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 July 26#Category:Gold graduation stoles Rublamb (talk) 14:56, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Sorry for not coloning. Should I propose the other one?Naraht (talk) 15:21, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

I think yes. Rublamb (talk) 15:26, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

German groups

My addition of chapter count to the infobox of a German group was reverted with this comment: "German student fraternities, known as "Studentenverbindungen," do not have chapters in the way that English fraternities do. If one were to find an equivalent to this concept in German student fraternities, the fraternities themselves would be considered the chapters of the umbrella organizations." ThoughtS? Do we need to exclude chapters from those with the Studentenverbindungen type in our report for missing chapters? Does this impact how we treat the German umbrellas? Rublamb (talk) 13:46, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

I *think* that they are mostly right. And I think Studentenverbindungen is the plural, the singular is Studentenverbindung and I think the German Umbrellas should be treated link the US ones like PFA. (though probably *not* in the same article) and it isn't *just* German, I think Austria, the Baltics, Poland and maybe Czech Republic & Slovakia.Naraht (talk) 15:44, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

I have worked on many of these articles and it is always a bit off from our norm. So is each group/chapter a Studentenverbindung (singular) in their infobox, rather than a Studentenverbindungen? And, we would no longer use the chapter field for any group with that type unless its website states a chapter number. Or should we translate to "student organization" or "student association" for type? Rublamb (talk) 18:23, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

My preference: type = Studentenverbindung (the singular)

yes on the website has to give a number otherwise leave it off

Drop the issue category if the type is Studentenverbindung . Primefac Is this is possible?

There seems to be terminology for dueling vs. non-dueling groups, as well as other types of Studentenverbindung. Once we/someone gains a better understanding of the various articles (list to come later) maybe we can use Emphasis to better describe. Or, maybe this can be part of the new infobox? Rublamb (talk) 17:36, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Portal Diskussion:Studentenverbindung

I've reached out to the Discussion group over on dewiki at de:Portal_Diskussion:Studentenverbindung#Request_knowledge_from_english_language_wiki_on_Studentenverbindung and got some really great answers to things. And as I said before, I'm thinking of creating an Template:Infobox_Studentenverbindung equivalent to https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorlage:Infobox_Studentenverbindung if I can understand all the fields.Naraht (talk) 19:42, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Differentiating the local tapped organizations.

It appears that there are slightly different types of local organizations that we might want to differentiate in the infobox to determine which ones we are *never* going to see websites for. There are some where no one should know who are members other than those who are already members, there are ones where membership is not revealed until after leaving school and there are those where it is public while they are in school. I *think* only the last one is in any way likely to have a website, so is there something in the infobox that could be looked at/set to avoid the maintenance category? (This is sort of half here, half in the infobox, but if we come to a decision...)Naraht (talk) 00:02, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Here are my suggestions:

• Type: Secret society
• Status: Defunct
• Type: Senior society (rarely have websites)
• Type: Confraterity (rarely have websites)

Rublamb (talk) 20:57, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

• Status: Currently defunct or merged or anything other than Active.
• Type: (and this is where I'm going to want to see the parameter list for August. I think we have some offshoots that are combinations of this, but the thing where we may some of the "Skull and Bones" types that are actually listed as "Honor Society", we'll have to change them to something similar to that. All of the "Tomb groups" at Yale should have the same type and we should probably use that as a guide.Naraht (talk) 21:09, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

I worked on the secret societies / senior societies when we moved those to our domain. At Yale, not all tomb groups are secret societies as some are senior societies or even traditional GLO. I am not saying I fixed all of them, but think I hit most when adding infoboxes and sources. Rublamb (talk) 21:15, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Secret Societies at Yale

(hit an ec here, but was working on this) Type values for the entries in Category:Secret societies at Yale

• Senior secret society - Aurelian Honor Society, Book and Snake, Brothers in Unity, Myth and Sword, The Pundits, Scroll and Key, Spade and Grave, St. Elmo Society, Torch Honor Society
• Senior society - Berzelius (secret society), Elihu Club, Mace and Chain, Manuscript Society
• Secret society - Leviathan (secret society), Skull and Bones
• Secret society - Wolf's Head (secret society)
• (Uses Infobox Organization!) - Linonian Society
• No infobox - Sage and Chalice

Naraht (talk) 21:36, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

I'll deal with the infoboxes on the last two. Today I have been adding infoboxes and switching from org boxes. Rublamb (talk) 19:22, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

New term. What to do about it? "Diaternity"

I ran across the term "Diaternity" or "diaternities" on the UVA fraternity list, then tracked its recent use elsewhere to at least one small, co-educational, transgender-focused or multicultural fraternity. This appears to be a newly-coined term, which an LBGTQ+ group, Lambda Delta Xi may have created, and which they define as "to transcend boundaries." The term is quite new.

While I am supportive of clarity and inclusion regarding language evolution I don't necessarily want to indulge every trendy word or phrase, or co-opted new usage. --It's so easy to over-reach in adopting new terms as they appear, and it seems to me that Wikipedia and the Wictionary are somewhat conservative in this, as are encyclopedias and dictionaries, generally. Jax MN (talk) 21:30, 6 August 2024 (UTC) Jax MN (talk) 21:30, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Can't remember which group, but the term was coined maybe ten years ago. If that is what the group calls itself, I see no issue with including that in the article. Same difference as allowing some sororities to continue to self-identify as a women's fraternity. If diaternites is used by more than one group, it might be worth mentioning in the overview article(s). Rublamb (talk) 01:11, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

References

Article cleanup needed

One of our main articles, Fraternities and sororities, has had a factual accuracy tag since March 2023. I just added a few sources, which is part of the issue. Since other have worked on this article in the past, you may have a better idea of what content is questionable. Rublamb (talk) 18:08, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

There is also a discussion on the articles Talkpage about moving this to Collegiate fraternities and sororities. Rublamb (talk) 22:27, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Landsmannschaft (Studentenverbindung)

Please take a look at Landsmannschaft (Studentenverbindung). I cannot tell if Landsmannschaft is the umbrella for a group of fraternities, if it is an individual fraternity, or if it is different or the same as a Studentenverbindung. Rublamb (talk) 17:12, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Awareness builder

Editors with ties to some of the GLOs -- some of the bigger social fraternities and APO are examples -- brand their User pages with small banner tags noting membership. It might be a helpful long-term objective for the Project team to create these, one for each society in their colors, that they might be picked up by editors (typically, new editors) to drive Project participation. We could pin them to each Talk page, with instructions for use. Jax MN (talk) 17:50, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Userboxes/Collegiate sororities and fraternities Rublamb (talk) 02:58, 17 August 2024 (UTC)