Talk:Main Page
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General discussion
Straw poll
Would most people be willing to entertain a weekly article for improvement on the main page? Several kinks must be worked out, but I think it would be a great idea (well duh, I'm the guy bringing it up...) Bremps... 03:46, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'd be open to exploring that. Schwede66 04:38, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Some previous discussion here and here Art LaPella (talk) 04:49, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- It's nice that there's been some precedent. Do you know if that ever panned out? Bremps... 06:53, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- There was a "Today's Article for Improvement" section added to the main page for a few weeks in 2013. It didn't last long and was pulled in May 2013. The subsequent discussion is here. Stephen 07:41, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- I like the idea, but it's possible that it would draw more vandalism to the chosen article and do more harm than good. JohnLaurensAnthonyRamos333 (correct me if I'm wrong) 19:03, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- We have long-established processes of dealing with vandalism, like WP:SEMI. Therefore, I don't think that this worry should stop us. And if it were a real concern, why would the same not also apply to the rest of the main page? Schwede66 00:59, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Good point. JohnLaurensAnthonyRamos333 (correct me if I'm wrong) 01:06, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Right, but the distinction is we're explicitly (or nearly so) asking people to come help out. If we do that and they can't, that would look a bit silly. Remsense诉 09:38, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- We have long-established processes of dealing with vandalism, like WP:SEMI. Therefore, I don't think that this worry should stop us. And if it were a real concern, why would the same not also apply to the rest of the main page? Schwede66 00:59, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- I like the idea, but it's possible that it would draw more vandalism to the chosen article and do more harm than good. JohnLaurensAnthonyRamos333 (correct me if I'm wrong) 19:03, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- There was a "Today's Article for Improvement" section added to the main page for a few weeks in 2013. It didn't last long and was pulled in May 2013. The subsequent discussion is here. Stephen 07:41, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- It's nice that there's been some precedent. Do you know if that ever panned out? Bremps... 06:53, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle. But let's see the details. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:08, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think this could work out if we're clever; I'll offer the following points:
- Maybe the pool should be restricted to Vital articles or some other deliberately collated set: articles should be prioritized that people are likely to feel are both important, and that they might already feel they can help with.
- We should absolutely go out of our way to grease the wheels with the articles: perhaps a AFI coordinator who volunteers their particular attention to editors engaging with them? Definitely helpful and specific maintenance tags and banners, and maybe even a short write-up on each talk page providing concrete ideas for every level of improvement.
- I actually think leaning towards thematically relevant articles would be huge for engagement. If we did this yesterday, we should've had John F. Kennedy up there.
- Remsense诉 10:00, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Another idea I perennially tinker with, though it's tangential, basically amounts to "organized gnoming drives"? We pick a few concrete but discretizable tasks for some set of articles: my favorite is
Copyedit the lead of every Vital Level-2 article. I think it'll attract a different crowd than existing drives do because it's communal and we can have a fun progress bar that fills up for each task. Remsense诉 14:04, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Another idea I perennially tinker with, though it's tangential, basically amounts to "organized gnoming drives"? We pick a few concrete but discretizable tasks for some set of articles: my favorite is
- I think this could work out if we're clever; I'll offer the following points:
- I think it would be a great idea. Encourages contribution because it appears on the main page, i.e. visibility! SWinxy (talk) 04:56, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Example If you wonder how this looked back in 2013, here's an example. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:45, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle. I suppose the caveat is that we expect everything on the Main Page to be "presentable", so there would have to be a good vetting process to make sure that the articles were fine enough to put in front of non-Wikipedians while also weak enough to justify asking for help with them. UndercoverClassicist T·C 09:28, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose, a direct link to an article without any comment on what is wrong with it is unlikely to help much (and seemed not to attract many edits in the examples given by Andrew). I am happy for us to have a flashing "Get involved!" section of the Main Page to attract people into editing (for example, we could make the Community Portal more prominent), but just a few links to articles in need of improvements will not do that. Random drive-by newbies usually "help" by overlinking, removing valid redlinks or by violating ENGVAR; if we want actual improvement from people who are not already Wikipedians, we need to do more than just say "hey, edit this article". If we want Wikipedians to help, perhaps the Main Page isn't the greatest place for this. —Kusma (talk) 10:18, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Comment this went very badly in 2013, so what makes you think it would work now? How would it be organised, where would it go on the Main Page etc.? Why weekly? There's far too little information to make an informed !vote. Modest Genius talk 13:21, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- Reviewing the discussion following the 2013 trial, there does not appear to be anything near a consensus that it "went very badly". People seem to have thought that it went well but needed adjustment. Here are some representative views from editors that are still active:
I would suggest that if it be reinstated, we have some blurbs about what those articles are about and what needs to be done with them
– Daniel CaseWouldn't it be better to try and improve this from where it is rather than starting over again?
– Kvng[...] many articles received noticeable increased contributions during the time they were listed on Main page. I agree with the notion of moving forward, and reinstating TAFI on Main page would be a great way of doing so.
– Northamerica1000I would like to see TAI return to the main page, but like others I did not find the way it was being presented to be very engaging.
– Just Step Sideways
- In fact as far as I can tell, the only reason that TAFI didn't become a permanent feature was that one single admin blocked it. – Joe (talk) 09:00, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- I barely remember this, but I think it may have been yet another case where we decided to try something new without determining how we would evaluate whether it was actually working, so instead of data, we got opinions. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 18:30, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Reviewing the discussion following the 2013 trial, there does not appear to be anything near a consensus that it "went very badly". People seem to have thought that it went well but needed adjustment. Here are some representative views from editors that are still active:
- Support in principle, I've always supported this and I brought up shutting down AFI a couple years ago here in village pump because of its inactivity, and I don't think they've made any more progress up bringing it back since then. I think this would be a nice way to help bring back AFI. Lallint 00:56, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. That's one of the intended functions of the DYK section, though it's been a bit obscured by the incorporation of new GAs with the new articles and new expansions. Unless specifically protected, nothing linked from the Main Page is excluded from editing—I've made copyedit and clarificatory changes to TFA a couple of times, some of them are a bit dusty when they run—but the new articles at DYK are particularly an invitation to tweakage, intentionally so. Yngvadottir (talk) 21:51, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- I would go farther to say it is not really communicated at all to the average reader that they are encouraged to any special extent to help out with the articles listed at DYK. Remsense诉 23:30, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose I 've been as critical as anyone of the WMF's various projects that have been imposed on us, but newcomer tasks actually seems to work, I've seen newbies pop up on obscure articles within hours of them being tagged for various issues. I think this is a better tool than inviting the whole world to focus on one crappy article. Perhaps we should add links to that on the main page? Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 22:33, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think putting newcomer tasks on the main page would risk splitting focus from the personal newcomer home pages. The WMF growth team has been investing effort into making them the starting point for newcomers, so I'd prefer to get more new users looking at their home page than the main page for suggestions on what to do. isaacl (talk) 23:15, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- One distinction I'd make clear is: I don't think this only has to be something meant for new editors. I for one would be interested in a daily list of pages that I may find engaging to hop into collaborating with others on. Remsense诉 23:33, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Anyone can opt into having a home page and thus have a list of suggested tasks shown. (Not everyone gets a mentor displayed on their home page due to a shortage of mentors). I just call it a newcomer home page to try to clarify that it's the one developed by the WMF growth team. isaacl (talk) 01:33, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Sure, but we usually don't. There's a special centrality to the Main Page. Remsense诉 02:35, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think many editors never visit the main page. If we're trying to build up new habits, personally I feel it's better to unify the initiative and encourage users of all tenures to use their home page. isaacl (talk) 03:54, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry to be a dinosaur, but... what the hell is a home page? – Joe (talk) 09:07, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Special:Homepage. Described on enwiki and on mediawiki.org. —andrybak (talk) 09:48, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry to be a dinosaur, but... what the hell is a home page? – Joe (talk) 09:07, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think many editors never visit the main page. If we're trying to build up new habits, personally I feel it's better to unify the initiative and encourage users of all tenures to use their home page. isaacl (talk) 03:54, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Sure, but we usually don't. There's a special centrality to the Main Page. Remsense诉 02:35, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Anyone can opt into having a home page and thus have a list of suggested tasks shown. (Not everyone gets a mentor displayed on their home page due to a shortage of mentors). I just call it a newcomer home page to try to clarify that it's the one developed by the WMF growth team. isaacl (talk) 01:33, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- One distinction I'd make clear is: I don't think this only has to be something meant for new editors. I for one would be interested in a daily list of pages that I may find engaging to hop into collaborating with others on. Remsense诉 23:33, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think putting newcomer tasks on the main page would risk splitting focus from the personal newcomer home pages. The WMF growth team has been investing effort into making them the starting point for newcomers, so I'd prefer to get more new users looking at their home page than the main page for suggestions on what to do. isaacl (talk) 23:15, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support. I think it is a very good idea to highlight that Wikipedia is a work in progress on our most visible page and the last time this was tried it seems to have worked quite well. Learning from that trial, we should probably a) focus on one article and b) include a blurb and/or explanation that gives newbies tasks that they can do. But as always the format can be refined as we go and doesn't need to be fixed here. – Joe (talk) 09:04, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support the AFI feature was abruptly pulled over concerns that the WP:TAFI project would not reliably deliver content. I believe this is no longer a concern. Other concerns exist but can be addressed as we go. The featured content on the main page deserves to have something to help with editor engagement and collaboration as this is the lifeblood of the project. ~Kvng (talk) 14:35, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support investigating this idea further per my musings above, in hopes of hitting on a design that could really improve the Main Page and better facilitate our project and community goals. Remsense诉 14:55, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Support as I feel that this would be a great idea for engagement and show folks what pages that need improvement look like. Ktkvtsh (talk) 18:59, 7 July 2024 (UTC)